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SackSolStr 41 minutes ago

The payback periods get me confused. A relative set up solar a year ago in one of the sunniest places in Europe, the Canaries, cost €7,000 for 6KW. He just ran the math on it and found out that the payback period is 15 years. The only way to make it profitable is government subsidies. How can it be profitable to install solar in continental Europe where taxes and labor costs are much higher while having much less sun? Why are we using taxpayers' money to subsidize such negative NPV projects?

kragen 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Your comment appears to be unrelated to Pakistan and, due to the confusion of units, has been reduced to nonsense. Moreover, your implied calculations don't work out.

If we assume that you meant €7000 for 6 kilowatts peak (not 6 kelvin wurtzite henries or 6 kilowatt hours, neither of which is sensible) the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price for their solar panels and therefore got 25× the payback time. However, if we assume €0.12/kWh and a 20% capacity factor, 6 kilowatts peak would average 1.2 kilowatts, which is 10520 kWh per year, which works out to €1260 per year, which would be a payback time of 6 years, not 15 years.

Moreover, another way of saying that the payback time on a durable investment is 15 years is that the investment returns 6.7% per year. That would be a highly profitable investment, even without government subsidies.

magicalhippo 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price

Where do I get 450W panels for $12 each?

kragen 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

pvXchange, but they're €23: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis...

€12 would be 44× cheaper. Maybe in a couple of years.

SackSolStr 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

sorry yes. He told me, installation is 6,000 W and is about 91% efficient at peak. 12 460W panels. panels point in optimal direction. In spain he sells excess to grid at €0.04 per KHW. Lowest cost of importing is €0.085 for KHW at night, about €0.22 at peak hours. He ran the numbers on power not bought (self consumption) + power sold, over a year. He said it comes to about €500 for the year. He added this really surprised him and he started asking around, and this seems to be typical for rooftop solar in the Canarias.

kragen 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

That's a 7% yearly ROI, which is a pretty decent number, better than you'd do on average in the stock market and more predictable. If he had a little storage so he didn't have to sell any, it would improve further. But also 6000W of panels in the low-cost category now costs €300: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis...

testing22321 29 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> You seem to have created this account just to troll

I find it fascinating that someone is willing to pay for accounts to swing opinions or seed FUD on a topics like solar panels.

It’s happening here, it’s clearly happening everywhere on every topic.

SackSolStr 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Or someone who lurks here, but never posts. Not everybody has an account here. I was just curious because I was talking my friend who has the solar just earlier today and he was a bit upset when he ran the numbers.

kragen 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

(Accusation removed from parent.)

kragen 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

HN accounts don't require payment.

testing22321 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

Someone is paying either real people to do this kind of thing, or for bots or LLMs to do it.

Someone wants to sway opinions, and they think it matters enough.

testing22321 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Those numbers sound wrong.

I have 7.8kw in Canada, and if I paid out of pocket payback would be 6-7 years.

We pat $0.13 per kWh from the grid, get a one for one credit on anything we feed in. System makes 7.8Mwh in a year.

What are your friends numbers?

Grid price is also pre-approved to increase not less that 5% a year forever, so it will only go in my favour.

SackSolStr 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

In spain he pays more than that on average, and only gets €0.04 for sold KWH. If it was one-to-one credit offset, as you have in Canada, it would certainly be very profitable.