| ▲ | trollbridge 3 hours ago | ||||||||||||||||
For reasons I don’t understand, American cities seem allergic to installing new municipal steam or hot water utilities, even though things like cogeneration were an obvious use case for it, and now things like solar heat storage. | |||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | thyristan 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||
Steam and hot water pipes are extremely expensive to install, far worse than electricity, fibre, water or sewage. You need to be more leak-proof than cold water pipes, because loss of pressure with steam and hot water is much more of a problem than with cold water and cannot easily be solved by just adding more cheap water. Pipe materials have to be more resistant to corrosion because higher temperatures and pressures make them corrode so much faster than with cold water. Closed hot water/steam circuits also mean that there won't be a protective limescale coating on the inside. You need insulation that you can bury and which will last for at least 40 years, which is even more expensive than the pipes. And the insulation will double the pipe diameter. And the insulated pipes have a larger keepout area that needs to be kept free of rocks, other pipes and mechanical strain because the insulation is soft and sensitive to those things. Since usually the pipes aren't operated in summer, and since generally thermal variance is far higher than with cold water, thermal expansion needs to be taken into account, so you need expansion corners, sliding sections, different valve constructions that are tight in all temperatures, etc. And even with perfect insulation, you will loose approximately 30 to 40% of heat in your piping. So all of this is only viable if you don't care about the cost of the heat, your consumers can (be forced to or persuaded to) accept at least 30% higher prices per kWh compared to their local boiler, not to mention the capital cost. There are only some areas in Europe even, where those kinds of installations take place: Densely packed inner cities with largely rented-out flats in appartment buildings. There, the landlords/owners avoid the cost and risk of a local boiler and don't care about the running cost of heat, because they don't pay for it. In smaller towns, like in the example, mostly public buildings like schools use those kinds of district heating systems, because the municipality doesn't care as much about cost of the heat, and more about cost of maintenance of a hundred local boilers vs. one centralized system. And in the end, it's taxpayers' money, so they don't actually care that much, headlines and opening ceremonies are more important than that. Individual home owners usually do have their local systems, which can be run cheaper than what district heating will charge you. And since city density is lower and home ownership is more widespread in the US, district heating is even less competitive there. | |||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | quickthrowman 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||
There are district heating and cooling in cities where it makes sense, both Minneapolis and St Paul, plus the University of Minnesota all have district heating and district cooling systems. The Minneapolis and U of M systems are operated by Cordia Energy and the St Paul system is operated by Evergreen Energy. This is the coldest large metro area in the lower 48 states, so it’s economical to do district heating and cooling here. | |||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | blitzar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | ||||||||||||||||
It sounds like communism / socialism / marxism to people that are unable to define what those things are. | |||||||||||||||||