| ▲ | jack_tripper 11 hours ago |
| What's with all this scaremongering around China gonna invade everything anytime soon? How many wars has China started? In my lifetime I've only seen one major county besides Russia having a habbit of starting illegal wars whenever geopolitics doesn't go its way and it's not China. |
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| ▲ | TulliusCicero 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| China routinely harasses Vietnamese/Filipino fishing boats IIRC to the point of boarding/assault, and it's expanding its territorial claims in the South China Sea illegally. It hasn't turned into a war yet because so far the other countries have just been taking it on the chin rather than more aggressively defending themselves. There's a reason why so many countries in that region are very happy to partner with the US for military drills or support. |
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| ▲ | csomar 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Wait till you find out Taiwan has the same claims. | | |
| ▲ | TulliusCicero 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Taiwan has been illegally building tiny military outposts throughout the sea to try and enforce its claims, like the PRC's doing? Because that's what I was talking about. | | |
| ▲ | jack_tripper 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Who decides which military posts are legal and illegal? Then if it's decided it's illegal, who enforces that decision? |
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| ▲ | exe34 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | yep, and the industrial output/military to back up its claim to the mainland! no wait.... |
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| ▲ | rich_sasha 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| China kind of says a lot of things Russia was saying for the past 20 years. A lot of the wester world (not all) said, yeah yeah, it's all just talk. Then it wasn't. I sincerely hope China doesn't go that was as it is to me, despite all its flaws, a super impressive country, but I think it careless to ignore warmongering talk. |
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| ▲ | jack_tripper 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | A LOT of countries on the planet talk about annexing their former territories, like Orbans Hungary. Others have actually done it (Armenia- Azerbaijan). What do you want to do about it? Start a world war with them just in case to provent them from doing it (further)? Bombing them in the name of peace? | | |
| ▲ | mcny 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The best defense is to have a military strong enough they won't dare attack. | | |
| ▲ | jack_tripper 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Which is what China is doing because the US is a liability to everyone not in their sphere of influence. But that's bad apparently. |
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| ▲ | gampleman 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Preventive war is like committing suicide out of fear of death." Otto von Bismarck |
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| ▲ | HeinzStuckeIt 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The South China Morning Post itself recently wrote on speculation that Beijing could try to challenge Tokyo’s control of Okinawa, given its history and proximity to Taiwan.[0] [0] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3333468/ch... |
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| ▲ | SenHeng 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | About a decade ago, some Chinese propagandists were encouraging calling Okinawa the Ryukyu kingdom and trying to ferment an independence campaign. It didn’t get too far. | | |
| ▲ | decimalenough 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Ryukyu was an independent kingdom with its own ruling court, language, culture etc until 1872, when it was annexed by Japan. Quite a few Okinawans would rather like to return to the previous state of affairs, although probably not if it involves exchanging the Japanese yoke for the Chinese one. (Ryukyu was a Qing tributary, but the Qing had bigger problems on their hands than worrying about a bunch of small islands.) | |
| ▲ | laughing_man 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not "ferment". "Foment". | | |
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| ▲ | ferguess_k 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is to counter the claim of the Japanese PM that Japan might join in the war if China goes for Taiwan. |
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| ▲ | laughing_man 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| China has started border skirmishes with India every twenty years or so since the founding of the PRC. And then there's Tibet. Just because they haven't initiated a mass invasion of Eastern Siberia you shouldn't get the idea China isn't pursuing an expansionist foreign policy. |
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| ▲ | rfoo 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | China maintain the view that Tibet is part of China since the establishment of PRC, and they make this very explicit. Same for their border disputes with India. China never admitted that they believe it's not theirs. Mea while China does not ever say that Japan or Korea is part of China (and it's the only reason why they keep North Korea from collapsing despite it being super annoying). So, again, any example of China suddenly started to claim lands? | | |
| ▲ | krior 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They also claim that the Taiwan-island is part of their territory. Since Its currently full of taiwanese people and China holds regular military exercises around that island an invasion does not seem far-fetched. | | |
| ▲ | boringg 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | It may not be far fetched but it would absolutely be a self inflicted wound to the PRC. Galvanizing global concern towards china. | | |
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| ▲ | dmurray 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Don't most people maintain the view that Tibet is part of PRC China? They might think further autonomy or independence for it would be a good thing, like the Basque Country, but the control isn't really disputed right now. And nobody really seems to think it should be part of India. In contrast to Taiwan, where the governments in both Beijing and Taipei officially maintain that those places are part of the same country, and the international community sometimes pretends the same and only recognises one government, but de facto everyone trades with both countries and deals with both governments. | |
| ▲ | SUKEIRAA 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands | | |
| ▲ | rfoo an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Okay it belongs to Taiwan, and they actually claim it, period. | |
| ▲ | RobotToaster 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Islands that were stolen from China during the Imperial Japanese occupation? |
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| ▲ | actionfromafar 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | North Korea is a buffer zone. That's the reason. | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Same for their border disputes with India. China never admitted that they believe it's not theirs. Not an issue I follow, but I did read something that said China had proposed swapping claimed territory for zones of actual control, and India turned them down. | |
| ▲ | exe34 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | isn't that the same clever argument that Comrade Vladimir uses in Ukraine? | | |
| ▲ | laughing_man 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's literally the same argument that every king, dictator, or president used to justify invasions in Europe (and presumably most of the world) since the end of feudalism. Even the Austrian moustache man justified his invasion of Russia based on myths of Aryan people having held that land in the distant past. | | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Even the Austrian moustache man justified his invasion of Russia based on myths of Aryan people having held that land in the distant past. Interestingly enough, there's a recent theory putting the location of the proto-Germanic speakers in Finland. | | |
| ▲ | HeinzStuckeIt 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > there's a recent theory putting the location of the proto-Germanic speakers in Finland. There is no credible theory to that effect. Either you have stumbled on something that is not taken seriously, or you are misunderstanding the consensus. Namely, Proto-Germanic speakers did visit the eastern Baltic coast for trading and raiding, and so there are Germanic loanwords into Finnic languages of Proto-Germanic date, but the agreed location where Proto-Germanic formed is in Scandinavia, not Finland. | | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Either you have stumbled on something that is not taken seriously, or you are misunderstanding the consensus. I'm not sure you have a good grasp on the meaning of the word "recent". A recent theory, by definition, must differ from the consensus. > There is no credible theory to that effect. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.03.13.584607v2 Granted, they don't say "Finland". They say "the northeast along the Baltic coastline". | | |
| ▲ | HeinzStuckeIt 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, I’m afraid that you are still misunderstanding the research. Your linked article speaks about gene flow associated with the movement of pre-Proto-Germanic speakers to Scandinavia, but later Proto-Germanic formed in southern Scandinavia according to the longstanding consensus. This is clearly spelled out in the abstract: “Following the disintegration of Proto-Germanic, we find by 1650 BP a southward push from Southern Scandinavia.” There’s no new theory here at all, just some nice archaeogenetic evidence to support a quite traditional view. FWIW, I work in a closely related field and am constantly reading Germanic–Finnic and Baltic–Finnic contact literature, and I can assure you this is old-hat stuff. |
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| ▲ | sebmellen 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Bingo |
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| ▲ | testdelacc1 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Perhaps there are not many instances in history where one country has gone out of her way to be friendly and cooperative with the government and people of another country and to plead their cause in the councils of the world, and then that country returns evil for good Jawaharlal Nehru (India’s Prime Minister), on the day that China launched an unprovoked surprise war against India in 1962. It was a crushing victory for China, and they grabbed all their territory they wanted. More can always be said but here’s a 2 minute video that explains the war - https://youtu.be/zCePMVvl1ek You know how Mao said diplomacy flows from the barrel of a gun? That wasn’t a metaphor. That is PRC policy since 1949. |
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| ▲ | iamacyborg 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > And then there's Tibet. I suspect they only care about Tibet in as much as it’s crucial for freshwater supply across significant parts of Asia, which is precisely why there are border clashes with Indian forces. | |
| ▲ | kamaal 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Speaking as an Indian. Most of these are just diplomatic flexing of muscles which mostly reduce to literally nothing. There is not going to a be a war in the modern context. Secondly, only one war has happened between China and India, in which arguably we Indians kind of started it- Read here- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_policy_(Sino-Indian_co... """
The forward policy had Nehru identify a set of strategies designed with the ultimate goal of effectively forcing the Chinese from territory that the Indian government claimed. The doctrine was based on a theory that China would not likely launch an all-out war if India began to occupy territory that China considered to be its own. India's thinking was partly based on the fact that China had many external problems in early 1962, especially with one of the Taiwan Strait Crises. Also, Chinese leaders had insisted they did not wish a war.[18] """ | | |
| ▲ | gsky 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nonsense. China occupied big chunch of Indian land. They will be a big war sooner or later. It's just how the world works | | |
| ▲ | kamaal 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | You want us(Indians) and Chinese to go to war. We stubbornly refuse to. Both countries, have now have growing economies with stable politics, and social direction. Things can only get better from here, and will. Whatever issues exist, we resolve by talking. Often, a few give and take moves are needed, which are mostly ok. Because way bigger good things await these both nations. And we want them. Either way there is no theatre. The Himalayas make a large wall and ensure no big border conflict can even happen. Even through missiles. The remainder is irrelevant, and both parties are more than happy to just keep talking until some agreement is in place, which even without isn't much of an issue with regards to economy, resources or anything. Much ado about nothing! | | |
| ▲ | eagleislandsong 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | As someone who has been living in Asia for decades (including in several of China's neighbouring countries), thank you for this even-handed take. It aligns very well with my own experience of how people living in these regions outside of the Western media bubble generally think about China. | | | |
| ▲ | RobotToaster 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > You want us(Indians) and Chinese to go to war. We stubbornly refuse to. Americans love sending other people into meat grinders for bankers' profit. | |
| ▲ | rixed 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thank you for voicing a different tone than the seemingly prevalent obscene warmongering. I believe people of good will are generally less comfortable speaking out and are therefore underrepresented, including here on HN. |
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| ▲ | keepamovin 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's a fair point if you only start the clock in 1949, but it's not scaremongering. It's pattern recognition over 3,000 years. The territory we now call "China" is the product of relentless expansion and assimilation. Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia,d , Manchuria, much of the southwest... none were historically Han or Mandarin-speaking. Beijing's own justification is usually "they were Chinese all along" (because "genetics" -- or because they once paid tribute). That's the same logic every empire has ever used. Modern Han Chinese themsleves carry heavy Mongol (Yuan) and other steppe ancestry, descendants of the single most successful conquest dynasty in human history. For centuries the Chinese court literally styled itself the center of the world and demanded tribute from "barbarians" on every side. Zheng He's fleets in the 15th century were larger and reached farther than anything Europe fielded for another 80 years. China stopped because the court lost interest, not because it lacked capability or ambition. Today's Nine-Dash Line, wolf-warrior diplomacy, and the "century of humiliation" narrative are all framed as restoring China's "rightful place." Xi's favorite phrase is "the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation," and the classical concept behind it is tianxia: "all under heaven" belongs, ultimately, under one orderly hierarchy (guess whose "manifest destiny" it is to sit at the top??). So when people say "China doesn't invade," what they usually mean is "China prefers to win without fighting," which is straight out of Sun Tzu and exactly the current playbook. Pretending otherwise is how you lose the game before it even starts. |
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| ▲ | RobotToaster 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > It's pattern recognition over 3,000 years. Now do the same for the USA, UK, Japan, Italy, Turkey, etc. | | |
| ▲ | keepamovin 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Right. There's no clan that's blameless. All our current progress stands on a mountain of blood and death. Humanity is drenched in war. Is that all we can ever be? | | |
| ▲ | ferguess_k 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Let's wait for some aliens. And then human apes can finally stop squabbling among themselves because they then realize how insignificant they are. How about a fake alien reveal? | |
| ▲ | koakuma-chan 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Probably at some point there will be only one country? | | |
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| ▲ | riffraff 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| since WW2: Annexation of Tibet, Taiwan Strait Crisis, Sino-Indian War, Sino-Vietnamese War. |
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| ▲ | BoxedEmpathy 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Also Korean War, 1959 Tibetan Uprising, Nathu La and Cho La clashes, Sino-Soviet Border Conflict, Paracel Islands conflict, Sino-Vietnam border clashes, Johnson South Reef Skirmish, China–India border clashes (Galwan), South China Sea standoffs. |
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| ▲ | danielscrubs 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| US needs China to have something for us to rally against, otherwise focus might be on the asset owners vs workers, which would cripple us. We need to win the AI race! The implication being that there can not be more than one winner… |
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| ▲ | testdelacc1 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > How many wars has China started? In 1962 China launched a surprise war against India completely unprovoked over some border territory. China’s aggression continues unabated even into present day - they’ve been illegally annexing territory in Bhutan to put pressure on India. That has been China’s way of negotiating all their borders - through violence first. More can always be said but here’s a simple 2 minute video explaining the 1962 war - https://youtu.be/zCePMVvl1ek. Here you are defending China when I bet you’d be hard pressed to point to Bhutan or Aksai Chin or the Chicken’s Neck on a map. But those are lesser known places. Are you seriously claiming you don’t know of the Nine Dash line and the violence with which China enforces its absurd maritime claims? |
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| ▲ | gverrilla 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| There's heavy investment in spreading lies about China. HackerNews consumes that shit just like american teenagers consume tiktok. For instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Asia |