It should cover everyone.

No body goes to the doctor because they want to.

I'll dare say it would be a net positive to even expand this to the undocumented.

Many of them have dependents, it's not going to be great if your dad can't afford his insulin and is thus unable to work to provide for you.

This includes a large percentage of our farm workers who are literally getting sprayed with pesticides all day. That's another issue, but when they get sick they more than deserve treatment.

And finally, the vast majority of illnesses can be treated cheaply if irregularly do your checkups. It can cost society $200 today for a doctor visit , or 30k for an ER stay in 3 years.

That said, I think this should be handled on a state by state basis. If the people of Alabama don't believe in single-payer healthcare, or they want to forbid using single pair healthcare for contraceptive or something, that shouldn't stop a progressive state from implementing it.

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roywiggins 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> No body goes to the doctor because they want to.

This isn't entirely true, there are entire industries catering to the worried well, eg expensive precautionary full-body MRIs with unclear scientific backing, whatever it is Bryan Johnson is doing and selling these days, etc.

And exactly what counts as need flexes and changes depending on circumstance and who is asking. "Do I need a doctor for this" is not a question that everyone answers the same way.

	▲	999900000999 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		The type of doctors who accept Medicare or a possible single payer system are not giving out precautionary excessive mris. Such a tiny percentage of people actually want to do stuff like that. Even without factoring in cost, most people shrug it off until it’s bad. Practically every other country has figured this out, it’s not impossible

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BobbyTables2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Expanding to undocumented providers is probably ripe for abuse. Although perhaps abusable either way.

What stops someone from saying “I’m an undocumented provider with 500 kids. Pay me 500 x AMOUNT”.

Public schools have residence and identity requirements. What’s an undocumented childcare provider going to have?

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nradov 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is a common misconception. For asymptomatic adults there is no proven benefit to regular "checkups".

https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.2012.36756

There are certain preventive care procedures that are proven to be effective based on reliable evidence. Everyone should get those, and for anyone with health insurance they're covered at zero out of pocket cost.

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/preventive-care-benefits...

The majority of healthcare spending goes to chronic conditions caused primarily by lifestyle factors such as substance abuse, over eating, poor sleep, and lack of exercise. The healthcare system can't deal effectively with lifestyle problems. Those are more in the domain of public health, social work, and economic policy.

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diogenescynic 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wholeheartedly agree, but I don't think the national politics would support that at the moment. I think we have to start somewhere that isn't controversial like extending coverage to kids. I don't think anyone is going to be against covering 8 and 9 year olds... but they might against 18 or 19 year olds. It's a foot in the door persuasion tactic rather than try to get everything all at once.

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ryandrake 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> I think we have to start somewhere that isn't controversial like extending coverage to kids. I don't think anyone is going to be against covering 8 and 9 year olds...

Not sure what gives you this idea. The major political party in power in the US today campaigned in large part on cruelty and removing subsidies and social benefits from people. There are a huge number of people who would bitterly fight against providing health care to children. It's the same mentality that bitterly fights against free school lunch for children.

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frumplestlatz 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I’m not cruel because I think society operates best — in terms of human outcomes — if incentives and disincentives are tied to decisions in ways that maximize the likelihood and benefit of personal responsibility.

Parents need to be responsible for their children. The state should only step in if they fail in their responsibility.

How is it folks like yourself can understand these concepts across a myriad of domains, including things like wildlife and their rehabilitation, and the importance of fostering self-sufficiency, but not this?

It’s not kindness to create people dependent on the state, or to advantage businesses that do not pay a living wage by subsidizing their employees.

Hell, look at what we’ve done to the cost of education by creating government-backed loan programs that simply allow universities to charge as much as students can afford to mortgage from their future.

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LadyCailin 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The party of “think of the children” couldn’t actually give two flying ducks about children, if it inconveniences them even slightly.

	▲	frumplestlatz 14 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		No, we just have a very different idea of how best to help people.

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polski-g 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> No body goes to the doctor because they want to.

I routinely go to specialists for things I don't need to, because I make enough money that it's better than waiting for the issue to go away on its own.

Now imagine expanding that to the entire country, when they don't have skin in the game.

	▲	HarryHirsch 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Their health would improve?
	▲	999900000999 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Imagine it doesn’t go away on its own, it’s something serious and you caught it early. For working class people , the skin in the game is having to miss a day of work, etc. Theirs still an opportunity cost