| ▲ | hodgehog11 8 hours ago |
| Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this? Bach is impressive, no doubt, but to each their own perhaps. I acknowledge that I have not received the appropriate training to fully appreciate the complexity in his works, so I wish I could hear what you do. To my ear, (and this isn't a novel opinion in the slightest), I think the Baroque era was more limited in expression due to the inherent limitations in the instruments and consequent styles at the time. Within those constraints, calling Bach an absolute titan of composition would be an understatement. But one wonders what he could have made without those constraints. |
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| ▲ | PotatoPancakes 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Bach's most approachable music might be his cello suites. But also, I think there are two camps of fans of "classical music" (by which I mean music in the styles: Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Impressionist, etc). There are those who listen to the music, and those who play it. For the most part, those who only listen to music often prefer Romantic and Impressionist styles. From the moody and dramatic to the gentle and contemplative, these styles are very approachable to the untrained ear. But those who play an instrument (or sing in a choir) spend lots of time practicing and rehearsing and interpreting the music as it's written on the page. This extra time makes all of the little nuances of Baroque music truly come to life. The classic example is Bach's Crab Canon, which is a fine little piece of music... but once you realize that the whole thing is a palindrome, and you can actively appreciate how the same parts work in a forward and backward context, it becomes really interesting and pleasant. So if Bach doesn't do it for you, and you play an instrument, try diving into playing it yourself. |
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| ▲ | sbrother 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think that's true about Bach's instrumental music, but his big sacred works like his Passions and the Mass in B minor are as "romantic" as the Baroque period gets. Like OP, I think of these works as basically the pinnacle of human artistic achievement. They somehow have all the nuance and complexity you're referring to -- while also telling a deeply emotional story, and just being heart-wrenchingly beautiful even if you don't know the story. | |
| ▲ | reactordev 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I cut my teeth on Bach on Cello when I was 7. By the time I was in high school I could play all the instruments. I still don’t consider Bach to be the genius everyone says he was. He was a nepo baby with a big purse. His brothers, his family, all musicians of note for prominent figures of society. However, his leaning on his long history of music within the family helped polish his work as structured which helped sell it. Now, Jean-Babtiste Lully was a character… | | |
| ▲ | PotatoPancakes 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you don't like it, that's fine, I won't argue over taste. But your other descriptions of Bach's life deserve to be fact-checked. > He was a nepo baby with a big purse. His brothers, his family, all musicians of note for prominent figures of society. However, his leaning on his long history of music within the family helped polish his work as structured which helped sell it. This interpretation is not particularly historically accurate. Let's investigate: > He was a nepo baby with a big purse. Musicians of the baroque era weren't particularly wealthy or notable. Musical fame wouldn't come until the Classical era. And yes, music was his family trade, but that's how most trades went in that time. His parents both died before he turned ten, so he was mostly raised by his older brother. By all accounts they were not wealthy. So I think the term "nepo baby" is misleading, and "and "with a big purse" is simply incorrect. > His brothers, his family, all musicians of note for prominent figures of society. This is highly overexaggerated. JS Bach had two brothers who survived childhood, and neither was particularly "prominent." Most of his "notable family" were his children, especially CPE Bach. > However, his leaning on his long history of music within the family helped polish his work as structured which helped sell it. Bach's career was one of slow and steady growth. It doesn't appear that he leaned on his connections or family name much. Bach did get some widespread acclaim by the end of his life, but mostly as an organist, not as a composer. His compositions were mostly discarded and ignored for a whole century until Felix Mendelssohn revived interest in his compositions. The cello suites, for example, were lost for nearly two hundred years, and only re-discovered in the 1920's. | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | He was known as an organist until the 18th century when someone decided to lump him in with the greats. His works were polished. Yes, he dedicated his life to music - but that’s also where his tenure started. Baroque style borrowing from others and making “commercial” music of his day. He was a nepo baby by our standards. His older brother that raised him wasn’t a Duke, but wasn’t poor either. He went to the best schools. They all borrowed from each other in this age. | | |
| ▲ | Ericson2314 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | He wasn't so "commercial" because he was doing more complex and countrapuntal music after it was falling out of fashion, and he never did an opera, which was all the rage. | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | In his home land of Germany, it wasn’t about the opera, it was about the church - and Bach obliged. |
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| ▲ | Aidevah 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >He was a nepo baby with a big purse. Interesting interpretation of "he was orphaned at 10 and left with nothing and had to go and live with his brother". | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | His father had lots of children, 4 of which became musicians, of which JSB was the last child, the baby. Barbara Margaretha tried to take the family purse (having already been twice widowed). JSB was “orphaned” but his older brothers were adults. Let’s be real. (Who gets married and dies 3 months later?) | | |
| ▲ | TheOtherHobbes 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | At the time, many people. Death stalked the land, children were lucky to reach adulthood, women were lucky to survive childbirth, and almost everyone experienced grief and bereavement. It's all in his music - the manic passion of trying to master a craft against that background, a burning faith in a better future, against constant reminders of the horrors of the present. It's not just four part counterpoint. There's a lot more going on. |
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| ▲ | lordleft 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sure! When I think of why I love Bach, I often think of works where he demonstrates an ability to express often conflicting emotions at the same time. For example, in St. Mathew’s Passion, there’s a famous piece entitled “Mache Dich, Mein Herze” — it’s sung at a part where the followers of Christ are laying his body to rest, and somehow merges genuine despair with hope, representing the promise of resurrection. I think his ability to represent despair and hope at the same time is pretty extraordinary. Other pieces I love are the 3rd and 5th Brandenburg concertos, as well as “Wachet Auf”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXL_wrSPF0 No shade if he still doesn’t click with you. I’m just particularly ardent on the subject of Bach and baroque music! |
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| ▲ | lovehashbrowns 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This piece is my favorite: https://youtu.be/Piw53UPooYU?si=WJIjWDKJUJ8HrDPO Können Tränen meiner Wangen Karl Richter’s version is my personal favorite but there’s lots of different recordings. IMO Bach’s St Matthew Passion is the best piece of musical art, maybe art in general too idk. | |
| ▲ | cons0le 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Here's a fantastic quality recording of suite 3 from BBC 1974 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EKanXXMkz8 Amazing musicality, but the cellist never made it big cause she was a woman | |
| ▲ | lo_zamoyski 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I presume you know Zelenka as well, a contemporary of Bach's (both knew each other and respected each other as composers). | | |
| ▲ | 1718627440 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There were a lot of these components in middle Germany at that time. Basically every reigning dynasty employed one, and there were a lot of those. They aren't famous now, but Bach wasn't famous at that time either. That he is famous now, is due to Mendelsohn. | |
| ▲ | inglor_cz 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Jan Dismas Zelenka wrote for the Saxon king, and many of his works were never released as a result. Then, they burnt to ashes in 1945. The only extant copies were caught in the bombing of Dresden. We tend to think of "lost works" as something that happened in Antiquity. Nope. |
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| ▲ | mitthrowaway2 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm not the GP but I can recommend Bach's Partita in D minor, said to have been composed after returning from travel to find that his wife had died and been buried in his absence. https://youtu.be/VfwVim0EybY Brahms said of it: "On one stave, for a small instrument, the man writes a whole world of the deepest thoughts and most powerful feelings. If I imagined that I could have created, even conceived the piece, I am quite certain that the excess of excitement and earth-shattering experience would have driven me out of my mind." |
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| ▲ | tetraodonpuffer 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| when it comes to Bach I am surprised more people don't mention pieces like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxP-YjDWlQ (arioso from the cantata 156, here for oboe) which I think stands up just fine against pretty much any other classical piece baroque or not. Personally I have a very big soft spot for his organ works, as I play (badly) some organ myself, and among those I don't see the trio sonatas recommended nearly often enough (here is a live recital of all of them, which is super impressive) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK9irE8LMAU among those I probably enjoy the most the vivace of BWV 530. Other favorite pieces are the passacaglia and fugue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVoFLM_BDgs the toccata adagio and fugue in C major https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klh9GiWMc9U (the adagio especially is super nice), but there's so many. Among organists I often come back to Helmut Walcha, and am always amazed at how he was able to learn everything just by listening, him being blind. |
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| ▲ | poly2it 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You should listen to Hilary Hahn's renditions of Bach's partitas and sonatas. She brings out the subtleties of Bach's composing beautifully, and the purity of his music is easy to appreciate in these solo pieces. https://inv.nadeko.net/playlist?list=PLor_18TcpRrxQmne5_SKRy... (YouTube proxy) |
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| ▲ | cons0le 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Try this one on for size https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8CDz9PUfs |
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| ▲ | Tokkemon 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The Cantatas. All of them. |
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| ▲ | dylan604 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > But one wonders what he could have made without those constraints. I had a friend that said if Mozart/Bach/et al had access to modern music production equipment, they'd all write psytrance. But it is just another example of "take great talent from long ago and put them in modern day" comparisons. |
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| ▲ | thinkingtoilet 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This is only scratching the surface but I will present one of his most famous pieces to people who might ask why something like this is said. Keep in mind this was written 300 years ago. That's 300. fucking. years. ago. Think about how dated something from the 80s might sound. How modern does this sound? How completely universal is it's beauty? To me, this could have been written today and still sound fresh and beautiful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWoI8vmE8bI This piece is still deeply moving despite centuries of tastes changing. This is only barely scratching the surface of Bach. As a musician, when I listen to other great musicians speak, they all speak about Bach as the best. Of course that's subjective, and there are no 'wrong' answers on who is your favorite, but when the feeling is so nearly unanimous amount people who are often, frankly, contrarian and counter culture it says something. |