I loved Red Alert 2 so much at release. Always was the pinnacle of (single player) RTS for me. The over-the-top characters, the cheesy story, the terrain interactions...

Everything afterwards felt lame and was geared too much towards multiplayer balance, which does not interest me the least.

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ecshafer 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Starcraft becoming uber popular in Korea I think really hurt the RTS genre. I did play RTS games online when I was younger. But I think you're right, Everything went from lets make a fun game with a cool campaign, to lets make an Esport. Company of Heroes 1 to 3, Dawn of War 1 to 2, Age of Empires 1,2,3 vs 4. You can really see this.

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emaro 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think the campaigns of StarCraft II are amazing (never played Broodwar unfortunately). However I kinda agree that StarCraft's success hurt the RTS genre, because it's just so freaking good. 15 years since release and there are still tournaments played, it's fun to watch and projects like Stormgate have a really hard time, because SC2 is the bar and it's super difficult to reach. In terms of unit legibility, responsiveness, balance, etc. The bad thing is, it's not an approachable game at all, it mainly is interesting in the competitive/eSport scene.

If I watch YT videos a la "New RTS games 2025/2026" there are very interesting projects which give me hope that SC2 is not the end of RTS games.

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ecshafer 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A lot of the new RTS games I think just end up trying to be StarCraft but not. Grey Goo for example was one that came out a few years ago and it was just Starcraft with a new skin. I am not saying Starcraft is a bad game, its a fantastic game (though I do prefer Warcraft). But it kind of sucks the air out of the genre.

Starcraft and Starcraft II, and Warcraft I,II,III had great campaigns. So it is kind of ironic that a lot of the games copying them cut the campaigns for the esports focus.

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Jach 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think you're stretching your point too far if you think Grey Goo was just a SC clone... Grey Goo is clearly in the the C&C branch of RTS more than the StarCraft branch, and of course made by Petroglyph. It's macro-heavy base-building, not micro-heavy, even as the Goo, it doesn't play the same as SC at all. It's also more than a few years old now (10)... On release the focus was the campaign, it didn't even release with replay or observer mode for multiplayer.

Tempest Rising is a newer RTS (this year) that's also in the C&C style, its highlight is the campaign. (Multiplayer I think is basically in the go-to-discord phase already.) The real problem is that RTS is just an unpopular genre, whether it's taking design inspiration from the C&C branch or the SC branch.

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Tade0 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The first StarCraft was Blizzard North at its peak. I recall how difficult it was to win just sending all your troops towards the enemy, because every unit had a comparatively cheap counter.

It was particularly visible in how, if you edited the map so that every pile of resources was 50k, so essentially endless, you'd arrive at a stalemate.

	▲	deaddodo 9 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> It was particularly visible in how, if you edited the map so that every pile of resources was 50k, so essentially endless, you'd arrive at a stalemate. Given (effectively) unlimited resources within base distance, Zerg undoubtedly have a fairly substantial advantage and will probably win. Assuming comparable player skills, of course. Their remax time is 1/3-1/4 that of Protoss/Terran, they can tech-switch near instantaneously, and they have some of the most powerful endgame meta. This was true for SC1 and Brood War, and it's even more true for current SC2.
	▲	AntiRush 10 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		StarCraft was actually built by Blizzard Entertainment (formerly Silicon and Synapse), Blizzard North (Condor) were the team behind Diablo and Diablo 2.

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skocznymroczny 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you think Grey Goo for just Starcraft with a new skin, check out Stormgate. They went so far to replicate almost all UI elements and put them in similar spots. With even things like the top ability bar which resembles Spear of Adun/coop commander interfaces in SC2.

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shagmin 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Age of Empires 2 has big tournaments as well, and the campaigns are fairly popular too I think.

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magarnicle 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's a bit weird to me that AoE 2 is the most popular of that series, considering how much more streamlined and balanced Age of Mythology is.

For example, getting to the 3rd age in AoE 2 ASAP is basically mandatory, but in AoM you can potentially start attacking from the 2nd age. On top of that, getting to the 3rd age in AoE 2 takes much longer than AoM. So there's basically a whole lot of wasted time at the start of an AoE 2 match.

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emaro 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You're right. I'm biased because I'm watching Starcraft for years know, but never really AoE.

	▲	hackernewds 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Watch some Hera games. The level of play is next level. And Aoe2 is consistently getting official updates, there's 3 Indian and 4 Chinese civs now.

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npteljes 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Genres also come and go. Arena shooters are also out for a long time, compared to 95-2005. Or point and click adventure games. I think there are a huge amount of players who are genre agnostic, or, not even "gamers", and just jump from one type of fun to the next.

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iamacyborg 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

DoW 2 is great, DoW 3 on the other hand…

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ecshafer 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I liked base buildings. DoW 2 was a good game, but the lack of base building was a let down.

	▲	iamacyborg 11 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah I can see that, I always felt like 2 captured the feel of the factions a bit more than the first did.

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teeray 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The over-the-top characters, the cheesy story

I love that they don't take themselves too seriously in this series. RA3 had some hilarious cutscenes with characters barely holding it together (the Soviet Premier was an underrated Tim Curry role IMO).

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Anon_troll 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's a shame the campaign of RA3 was boring. They got the theme and cutscenes right, but the campaign missions were rather slow, generic and forgettable.

It's the opposite of C&C3, which had a good campaign but the theme was a step back from the scifi of Tiberian Sun. Especially the GDI/NOD units were way less futuristic, and the alien ones were a bit too similar to each other in style. The cutscenes were also mostly boring compared to earlier games.

If I recall correctly, the expansion pack for C&C3 was much more interesting in these aspects, but the gameplay suffered.

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Xelbair 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism,

barely holds laughter back and takes a break

SPACE!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Sq1Nr58hM

	▲	philistine 11 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		He looked up! It's vital to mention that in this moment, renowned character actor Tim Curry, to highlight the fact that he was going to space, chose to look up!
	▲	ceejayoz 11 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I wish there was a behind-the-scenes of this.

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tomaskafka 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Absolutely! I don't have time to play a RTS campaign, but I watched the RA3 story cutscenes and they are the top of the genre.

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hkt 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism... SPAAACE!"

A more innocent time tbh

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jayd16 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's a lot of things going against the RTS genre.

They're technically challenging to make and creatively hard to balance.

The public doesn't want to pay $60 upfront for a campaign when fun freemium games exist.

The UX does not work well on controller so a huge amount of console players will be out of reach.

Games tend to be quite long and because it's not team play matchmaking matters a lot. This push multiplayer into being highly competitive and not pushes out the casual players.

Seems like Clash Royale likes are the best we've come up with to modernize the genre but of course its very different.

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tshaddox 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It was so fun even just as a sandbox. Like Age of Empires 2, they somehow just got the feel of everything so perfect. Deploying G.I.'s in sandbags and getting them promoted to veteran, so fun! Chaining prism towers, how delightful!

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nkrisc 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

RA2 was loads of fun played with a friend over LAN against many computer opponents.

We’d start the game up in one computer, then pop the CD out and start it up in the next one, and so on.

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OptionOfT 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Doesn't RA2 check serials over network?

I do remember having to install IPX to play over LAN.

	▲	LikesPwsh 5 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The original release came with separate Allied/Soviet discs. You could put one in your buddy's computer. Keygen was also easily available.
	▲	nkrisc 8 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I don't think it did, or at least not the version I had, though it's entirely possible I am misremembering. I know for certain we did the same thing with StarCraft as well. Somehow, we got multiple instances of RA2 running on a LAN.

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patates 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

rules.ini and rulesmd.ini are the 2 text files, in my life, I've spent the most time with.

I'd probably lose another week if I had easy access to RA2 modding. Or let's say "experimenting and watching the AI burn" not to disrespect the real modders.

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jajuuka 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I got really into C&C with Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 was a big change but I fell in love with it for the same reasons you mentioned. It's been the most disappointing part of seeing them open source all the old games. That this amazing game AND Tiberian Sun won't be part of it because they lost the code.

The "we made units this way because it's fun" philosophy is sorely missed. Every game feels like it goes through a tuning phase just for esports. Even if the game isn't out yet.