| ▲ | sroussey 15 hours ago |
| I was half expecting something about how to get tcp into windows, but this is win95 where they shipped it inside the os and put some company out of business that used to sell that. |
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| ▲ | ogurechny 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The turbulent times and the breakneck speed of computer development need to be taken into account. Not long before that computer networks were strictly corporate things installed by contractors choosing hardware, driver and software suppliers suitable for tasks performed by employees or students, and someone who installed it at home was the same kind of nerd who would drag an engine from the work into his room to tinker. Non-business-oriented software rarely cared about third party network functions. Then network card became a consumer device, and a bit later it became integrated and expected. Also, Windows did not install TCP/IP components on computers without a network card (most of them until the Millennium era), it was an optional component. You could not “ping” anything, as there was no ping utility, nor libraries it could call. In that aspect, those network-less Windows systems were not much different from network-less DOS systems. The installer probably still works that way (or can be made to, by excluding some dependencies), but it's hard to find hardware without any network connectivity today. I wonder what Windows 11 installer does when there is no network card to phone home... |
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| ▲ | franga2000 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I wonder what Windows 11 installer does when there is no network card to phone home... One of "works fine", "needs a command line trick to continue" or "refuses to work completely" depending on which specific edition of win11 your computer has been afflicted with. |
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| ▲ | jahnu 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I used to use Trumpet Winsock with Windows 3.1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpet_Winsock |
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| ▲ | hypercube33 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Didn't Win95 get tcp from FreeBSD? |
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| ▲ | 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | pak9rabid 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Win95 had its own stack, codenamed Wolverine | |
| ▲ | LeoPanthera 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That was Windows 2000. | | |
| ▲ | EvanAnderson 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The story with the Windows NT IP stack is nuanced, but it wasn't just lifted from BSD: https://web.archive.org/web/20051114154320/http://www.kuro5h... | |
| ▲ | hypercube33 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No I'm fairly certain that berkley sockets were used as a foundation to integrate a full network stack under winsockets so people wouldn't have to go buy things like Trumpet (Windows 3.1) and you could coax out messages saying as much from the commandline but Google is failing me (I'm sure most of this stuff is on usenet which no one seems to care about these days) | | |
| ▲ | zweifuss 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | The history of the Windows TCP/IP stack went most likely like this: IBM (NetBEUI, no TCP/IP) -> Spider TCP/IP Stack + SysV STREAMS environment -> MS rewrite 1 (early NT, Winsock instead of STREAMS) -> MS rewrite 2 (make win2000 faster): https://web.archive.org/web/20151229084950/http://www.kuro5h... | | |
| ▲ | kalleboo 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's interesting how STREAMS pervaded everything for a short while (Apple's Open Transport networking stack for System 7.5 and up was also based on STREAMS) but everyone almost immediately wanted to get rid of it and just use Berkley sockets interfaces. | | |
| ▲ | justsomehnguy 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I still don't quite get how you should had communicate with the other systems over the network with STREAMS. With IP you have an address and the means to route the data to that address and back, with TCP/UDP sockets you have the address:port endpoint so the recipient doesn't need to pass a received packet to the all processes on the system, asking "is that yours". So if there is already some network stack providing both the addressing and the messaging... | | |
| ▲ | fredoralive 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | STREAMS isn’t a networking protocol, it’s an internal data routing thing some UNIXes use locally, and amongst other things to implement the network stack in it. You’d still be talking of stuff like IP addresses and the like with it. Probably with the XTI API instead of BSD sockets, which is a bit more complex but you need the flexibility to handle different network stacks than just TCP/IP, like erm… |
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| ▲ | xbar 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Berkeley, for disambiguation. | | |
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