Nice, they know better. But it also makes me wonder, because they're saying "but what if you need to run another app", I'd expect for things like loadbalancers for example, you'd only run one app per server on the data plane, the user space stack handles that, and the OS/services use a different control plane NIC with the kernel stack so that boxes are reachable even if there is link saturation, ddos,etc..

It also makes me wonder, why is tcp/ip special? The kernel should expose a raw network device. I get physical or layer 2 configuration happening in the kernel, but if it is supposed to do IP, then why stop there, why not TLS as well? Why run a complex network protocol stack in the kernel when you can just expose a configured layer 2 device to a user space process? It sounds like "that's just the way it's always been done" type of a scenario.

wmf 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

AFAIK Cloudflare runs their whole stack on every machine. I guess that gives them flexibility and maybe better load balancing. They also seem to use only one NIC.

why is tcp/ip special? The kernel should expose a raw network device. ... Why run a complex network protocol stack in the kernel when you can just expose a configured layer 2 device to a user space process?

Check out the MIT Exokernel project and Solarflare OpenOnload that used this approach. It never really caught on because the old school way is good enough for almost everyone.

why stop there, why not TLS as well?

kTLS is a thing now (mostly used by Netflix). Back in the day we also had kernel-mode Web servers to save every cycle.

	▲	bbarnett 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Was it Tux? I've only used it, a looong time ago, on load balancers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUX_web_server

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rcxdude 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can do that if you want, but I think part of why tcp/ip is a useful layer of abstraction is it allows more robust boundaries between applications that may be running on the same machine. If you're just at layer 2 you are basically acting in behalf of the whole box.

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hansvm 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

TCP/IP is, in theory (AFAIK all experiments related to this fizzled out a decade or two ago), a global resource when you start factoring in congestion control. TLS is less obviously something you would want kernel involvement from, give or take the idea of outsourcing crypto to the kernel or some small efficiency gains for some workloads by skipping userspace handoffs, with more gains possible with NIC support.

	▲	notepad0x90 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		why can't it be global and user space? DNS resolution for example is done by user space, and it is global.
	▲	Veserv 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		You do want to offload crypto to dedicated hardware otherwise your transport will get stuck at a paltry 40-50 Gb/s per core. However, you do not need more than block decryption; you can leave all of the crypto protocol management in userspace with no material performance impact.