| ▲ | rwmj 13 hours ago |
| Wind & nuclear together. Britain already has large wind installations, since the sea to the east is quite shallow (it used to be a land bridge to Europe only 7,000-10,000 years ago). Back that up with nuclear providing the base load and you have reasonable energy security. |
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| ▲ | Lio 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > it used to be a land bridge to Europe only 7,000-10,000 years ago) Doggerland. I've always found its geography and the idea that people lived there fascinating. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland |
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| ▲ | DrBazza 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Fisherman frequently dredge up stone age (or earlier) implements from there. |
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| ▲ | graemep 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| AFAIK the cost of nuclear is building it, but not running it. If you have enough nuclear to provide enough energy when there is no wind, then why do you need to build wind energy at all? |
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| ▲ | rwmj 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | One immediate reason is its going to take another decade (conservatively) to even build one of these modular reactors. Another is the vast cost of nuclear compared to wind. We're deploying wind farms in large numbers right now (and even sometimes connecting them to the grid). | | |
| ▲ | laurencerowe 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This slow buildout will logically limit nuclear power to a minor role in the UK. By the time we could possibly build out large amounts of nuclear it seems likely we will already have built out large amounts of cheap wind power. With some battery storage and solar this can cover us for 90-95% of the year. For the remainder we will need dispatchable backup power. That will be gas and maybe at some point green hydrogen or its derivatives. I suspect we will always keep around a little nuclear to maintain expertise for strategic national security reasons but it is hard to see nuclear power making sense in an energy market dominated by intermittent renewables like the UK. | |
| ▲ | chickenbig 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > its going to take another decade (conservatively) to even build one of these modular reactors. So nuclear reactors can be built to supply the energy and power as the offshore wind farms get decommissioned. The rise and fall. > Another is the vast cost of nuclear compared to wind. What do you mean by cost? Capital expenditure per kW of nominal capacity, or by total energy generated? Plus should we consider other costs (backup, transmission, curtailment)? |
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| ▲ | RobotToaster 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A big part of the cost is design. China has built a lot of nuclear capacity at a low cost by essentially copying and pasting the same design, something that should be even easier with SMRs. | | |
| ▲ | matthewdgreen 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Relatively low cost. The cost of PV has dropped much faster and they’re building much more of it, even compared to their plans from a decade ago. SMRs are supposed to be the design that solves this, essentially moving nuclear into the same “build it at mass scale in a factory” footing that solar PV is on. But solar is deep down the production curve and SMRs are just beginning it. |
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| ▲ | DennisP 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | One option is to build enough nuclear to cover your minimum demand, and enough wind/solar/storage to cover the rest. | | |
| ▲ | hdgvhicv 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why not just build the wind/solar/storage to cover it all. If that’s too expensive why not just build enough nuclear to cover it all. | | |
| ▲ | AnthonyMouse 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because they do different things. Suppose you need 10GW of power for an absolute baseline. Enough to heat homes to a temperature that people don't freeze to death on a cold day, to keep power to hospitals and other critical services, etc. Then you need another 10GW on top of that to run aluminum smelters and heat homes to 80°F instead of 60°F and things like that. If you have 20GW (average) of wind but you get an extended period of low generation and the batteries run down, people die. If you have 10GW (average) of wind and 10GW of nuclear and you get an extended period of low wind generation, the price of electricity goes up that week and people turn off their aluminum smelters and things but nobody dies. If you have 20GW of nuclear you can run the aluminum smelter 52 weeks a year instead of 51 but then people are paying more for electricity than they would with renewables in the mix, which isn't worth it. So which one should we do? |
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| ▲ | ViewTrick1002 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Take California. The minimum demand is 15 GW and peak demand 52 GW. What you’re saying is they they should use extremely expensive nuclear power to cover the easy portion and then have renewables when they are the most strained supply 37 GW. Why not just cheap renewables for everything? New built power literally does not make sense when real constraints are added. |
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| ▲ | DrBazza 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The cost of nuclear is two fold - government bureaucracy, and the lack of commercialization due to decades of misinformation from the eco-groups. The plans just to build a tunnel under the Thames in the UK in 2025 is over 2 million pages at the moment, imagine what it is for the Sizewell C reactor - the environmental assessment on its own was 44,000 pages. SMRs are a good middle ground because they can be commercialized and cost can be driven down once the government gets out of the way. | | |
| ▲ | fundatus 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > the lack of commercialization due to decades of misinformation from the eco-groups The lack of commercialization has exactly a single reason: The lack of commercial viability. | |
| ▲ | lostlogin 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The cost of nuclear is two fold - government bureaucracy, and the lack of commercialization due to decades of misinformation from the eco-groups. The misinformation hasn’t occurred in a vacuum. The nuclear industry has been far from transparent in how it operates. |
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| ▲ | matt-p 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| We could probably do with a small amount of storage as we do have days where we pay for turbines to /not/ generate. |
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| ▲ | ViewTrick1002 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > Back that up with nuclear providing the base load and you have reasonable energy security. So you’re saying that we should turn off the nuclear plant? What do we calculate? A generous 50% capacity factor? The new built nuclear power now costs ~40 cents/kWh. It just becomes ridiculously expensive when real world constraints are added. |
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| ▲ | trebligdivad 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeh it probably is expensive - but we currently have no other way (other than gas) to cover the low-wind/sun periods; while there are times when the UK can almost run purely off wind, there are other periods where we get ~5% of that wind energy for a week or so; the battery storage is nowhere near useful for that. | | |
| ▲ | rcxdude 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They're right, though. Doing both is dumb. The alternative to renewables + storage is nuclear + storage, with the nuclear + storage having the advantage of the storage capacity needed being more predictable and a bit smaller, but with the massive disadvantage of the nuclear being extremely expensive and slow to build. But building enough nuclear plants to do what you're proposing, and then turning them off most of the time to get energy from the renewable plants you're also building, and only drawing from them unpredictably, is objectively the worst option. | |
| ▲ | pfdietz 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Hydrogen or low capex thermal. The UK has adequate salt formations for large scale storage of hydrogen. | | |
| ▲ | trebligdivad 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Looks like someone is trying to push for it:
https://ukenergystorage.co.uk/ Good if they can get it to work; there's also a hydrogen/ammonia storage scheme being planned;
https://www.statkraft.co.uk/newsroom/2025/statkraft-shares-p... I think it's going to take a while, but certainly worth trying. | |
| ▲ | MagicMoonlight 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hydrogen is the worst possible fuel. It's the least dense material in existence so you need a ton of it. It has to be made from either cracking polluting materials, or using a huge amount of electricity. It is really difficult to store and really flammable. Nuclear is endless clean energy. Why do people like you keep ruining everything? If it wasn't for you, we'd have had full nuclear by 1980. No oil problems, no terrorist states, no dubai. | | |
| ▲ | lostlogin 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Nuclear is endless clean energy. The UK hasn’t had any nuclear waste problems? It might be the solution but pretending it’s perfect is how we got here. | |
| ▲ | pfdietz 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This would be green hydrogen. Sure, it has low density, but underground storage is pretty cheap at scale. Yes, it's flammable, but that can be handled, and is handled routinely -- the world currently produces and consumes 700 cubic kilometers (at STP) of hydrogen per year. The huge advantage of hydrogen here is that a gas turbine power plant might cost $600/kW, a tiny fraction of the cost of a nuclear power plant. So if you have a need for a backup plant whose cost will be dominated by amortization of its fixed cost, hydrogen beats nuclear. |
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| ▲ | matt-p 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's so funny every time we build a nuclear plant we say 'ooooh expensive' then by the time it's built it turns out it's ~ at the cost of gas. | | |
| ▲ | mikeyouse 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Running existing plants is about the cost of gas - building new ones is extraordinarily expensive and is something like 3x or 4x the cost of other options, even after adjusting for nuclear’s much better capacity factor. | |
| ▲ | croes 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, let‘s ignore that construction costs https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cev03wer0p2o And the subsidies needed to keep the price "low". That’s why France had to raise the price because even with subsidies they couldn’t cover the costs | | |
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| ▲ | happymellon 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The current "real world constraint" is purchasing gas from Russia. Yeah, nuclear is better than that. | | |
| ▲ | bauble12 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The thing Ive never quite understood is that the UK has no domestic supply of uranium. | |
| ▲ | ViewTrick1002 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Almost all of Europe has stopped buying Russian gas? The exception being nuclear powered France. [1] You also do know that we despite 19 sanctions packages still haven’t been able to sanction the Russian nuclear industry? We’re just too dependent on it. [1]: https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/eu-talks-tough-russian-lng-... | | |
| ▲ | realusername 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | The French gas plants have been built to support renewables, France didn't have almost any gas plants prior 2010. There's no sanctions on the Russian nuclear industry because it's a rounding error financially compared to gas or petrol. |
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