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lukan 15 hours ago

It is evil to not allow lies?

That does not seem to be so evil .. but I did not found the legal terms on a first glance, so maybe there is more?

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estimator7292 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

One of these statements is a lie:

I live in America

I have red hair

I like bluebirds

Do you think it is good and just and fair to ban someone for one of these falsehoods?

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lukan 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Depends what your intentions are. If I want a authentic community, I would not want people to participate who lie where they live.

Otherwise there is the concept of making a prank which is fine by me.

But intentionally spreading lies for political propaganda or scam is very much a reason to ban someone like this for me.

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bragr 3 hours ago | parent [-]

So you agree with me then? I'm confused.

	▲	lukan 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You edited your post, so not sure what your point is. Either way, I would not agree that banning liers is evil.

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aatd86 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What is your credit card info? Don't lie.

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arccy 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't want to tell you

is a truth and a perfectly safe answer

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aatd86 9 hours ago | parent [-]

That doesn't answer my question though :D You can either lie outwardly or by omission. xD

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lukan 7 hours ago | parent [-]

It did answer your question. One can also refuse a answer - that is not lying, neither by omission or anything else.

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aatd86 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Ok so it was tongue-in-cheek if not obvious but thanks whoever for the downvote. Then a bit more serious... There might be even better examples but let's consider that someone is part of a community that can use what is considered a slur, depending on context, or a term of endearment, depending on context and who uses it etc... If someone else uses it but fails to disclose their appartenance to said group. When asked, they can refuse to disclose it.

Is it fair to get them banned from the community? Can we consider that they might be lying by omission? After all they didn't answer and they might pass themselves as part of a community.

There are also colloquial considerations in online interactions that might be taken into account.

This is not really what I was veering toward initially but simply as a way to bring some more nuance since humor doesn't work here apparently.

This is the sort of things we see on twitter/X etc. You can't force people to speak differently, you can't force people to disclose information they would not want to disclose, but you may want to have some sort of policy to rule these kind of issues.

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lukan 6 hours ago | parent [-]

"When asked, they can refuse to disclose it."

Yes and that is still not a lie. Your comment above seems to imply otherwise and it was not humor to me, but arguing in bad faith.

"Is it fair to get them banned from the community?"

If the rules say no lying, then yes.

"You can't force people to speak differently"

Of course you can. Why do you think I am around here and not on reddit or alike? There are clear rules around discourse and they are enforced.

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aatd86 5 hours ago | parent [-]

It is a lie if they use it as if they were a full-fledged member of a community while not actually being a true member of said community.

If I disguise myself as a man, that does not mean that I can go the male restrooms. If I am asked for proof that I am actually female for some reason, can I decline showing such proof?

And regarding arguing in bad faith, I was not arguing. Maybe you are not aware of the expression 'lying by omission'? But the smileys I used were supposed to make obvious that it was a joke/tongue-in-cheek. Even the initial question was tongue-in-cheek. Do you sincerely believe that I expect to receive some credit card info?!!!

Ack that this example might not be best since the lie in the first place is the disguise. But, not everything is ruled by law, especially online. Which is also the point of the question.

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lukan 3 hours ago | parent [-]

"It is a lie if they use it as if they were a full-fledged member of a community while not actually being a true member of said community."

That would be a lie, yes. (I found your example above not clearly written and still am not quite sure what you meant exactly)

"And regarding arguing in bad faith, I was not arguing. Maybe you are not aware of the expression 'lying by omission'? But the smileys I used were supposed to make obvious that it was a joke/tongue-in-cheek. Even the initial question was tongue-in-cheek. Do you sincerely believe that I expect to receive some credit card info?!!!"

Asking for information and someone declining that information has nothing to do with lying by ommision. That you try to make a connection here is what makes me believe you are not debating (or talking about or whatever) in good faith.

"But, not everything is ruled by law, especially online. Which is also the point of the question."

But this is about a concrete community, where my point is, they can very much rule certain things by their law.

And to me by default, lying is evil. And not banning those who lie (which was the starting point here).

	▲	aatd86 an hour ago \| parent [-]
		So on an online forum, do you really think that you can force people to choose a profile picture that represents them accurately? Or is it a lie and it is a bannable offense? How do you enforce the truth? > Asking for information and someone declining that information has nothing to do with lying by omission. You may want to look up the definition of 'lying by omission'. Within the context of asking for profile information, it might well be. My point is that you need to be more measured. Even lying can be for protection at times. Sometimes it is not. It is not as straightforward as you make it seem. An interesting thesis if you have time: https://theses.hal.science/tel-02170022/file/Icard-2019-Thes...

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squigz 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think it's evil - by a small stretch of the word - to think that it's appropriate to forbid lying in general on a social chat platform, particularly as a bannable offence. It's also foolish to think that such terms could be reasonably enforced.

	▲	lukan 13 hours ago \| parent [-]
		"It's also foolish to think that such terms could be reasonably enforced." It would be a good legal base though, to be able to enforce it if needed.