> Any definition of engineering which excludes the Wright brothers and James Watt, who _invented the machine that gives the field it's name_ is a fairly poor definition. If you're creating something in a poorly understood situation by applying rules of thumb, you're doing engineering.

You seem to be implying that the Wright brothers built planes based on rules of thumb. They built scale models and a wind tunnel precisely so they could measure and design their plane more effectively.

A "rule of thumb" isn't just guessing. My point is that they weren't accredited members of an engineering organization following established guidelines from regulations. They were figuring it out how to build an airplane without having any real scientific theory for how airplanes could work or any established engineering practice for how to build one.