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tombert a day ago

I swore a blood oath that I would never buy an Asus product ever again, after three terrible laptops from them in a row, but holy hell do I kind of want this monitor.

My main "monitor" right now is an 85" 8K TV, that I absolutely love, but it would be nice to have something smaller for my upstairs desk.

mnw21cam a day ago | parent | next [-]

I have a fantastic Asus laptop that is 8 years old now and (after an easy battery replacement) easily does everything I want from it and feels nice and solid. I was so impressed that I recommended Asus to someone else, and what they got was pretty awful.

So basically, YMMV. They make good stuff, and they make awful stuff.

ssivark a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What are the cons of having a large TV as a monitor? I've been considering something like this recently, and I wonder why is this not more common.

bee_rider a day ago | parent | next [-]

Someone mentioned the latencies for gaming, but also I had a 4K TV as a monitor briefly that had horrible latency for typing, even. Enough of a delay between hitting a key and the terminal printing to throw off my cadence.

Only electronic device I’ve ever returned.

Also they tend to have stronger than necessary backlights. It might be possible to calibrate around this issue, but the thing is designed to be viewed from the other side of a room. You are at the mercy of however low they decided to let it go.

ycombinete a day ago | parent | next [-]

You could probably circumvent this by putting the display into Gaming Mode, which most TVs have. It removes all the extra processing that TVs add to make the image "nicer". These processes add a hell of a lot of latency, which is obviously just fine for watching TV, but horrible for gaming or using as a pc monitor.

bee_rider a day ago | parent [-]

It was a while ago (5 years?), so I can’t say for certain, but I’m pretty sure I was aware of game mode at the time and played with the options enough to convince myself that it wasn’t there.

xnx a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> horrible latency for typing

Was this the case even after enabling the TVs "game mode" that disables a lot of the latency inducing image processing (e.g. frame interpolation).

sim7c00 a day ago | parent [-]

game mode is a scam. it breaks display quality on most TVs. and still doesn't respond as fast as a PC monitor with <1ms latencies.... it might drop itself to 2 or 3 which is still 2x or 3x atleast slower.

you can think 'but thats inhumanly fast, you wont notice it' but in reality, this is _very_ noticeable in games like counter-strike where hand-eye coordination, speed and pinpoint accuracy are key. if you play such games a lot then you will feel it if the latency goes above 1ms.

eurleif a day ago | parent [-]

Where are you finding monitors with <1ms input lag? The lowest measured here is 1.7ms: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag

Dylan16807 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They measure in a particular way that includes half a frame of unavoidable lag. There are reasons to do it that way, but it's not objectively the "right" way to do it.

Rtings basically gives you a number that represents average lag without screen tearing. If you measure at the top of your screen and/or tolerate tearing then the numbers get significantly smaller, and a lot of screens can in fact beat 1ms.

theshackleford a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most people lack an understanding of displays and therefore what they are quoting and are in fact quoting the vendors claimed pixel response time as the input lag.

It’s gotta be the most commonly mixed up things I’ve seen in the last twenty years as an enthusiast.

sim7c00 a day ago | parent [-]

well atleast i didn't misunderstand my own lack of understanding :D ... -

the part of feeling the difference in response times, that's true though, but I must say, the experience is a bit dated ^^ i see more high resolution monitors have generally quite slow response times.

<1ms was from CRT times :D which was my main counter-striker days. I do find noticable 'lag' still on TV vs. monitor though but i've only tested on HD (1080p) - own only 1 4k monitor and my own age-induced-latency by now far exceeds my display's latency :D

sim7c00 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

false advertisements :D

tombert a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm sure there are reasons with regards to games and stuff, but I don't really use this TV for anything but writing code and Slack and Google Meet. Latency doesn't matter that much for just writing code.

I really don't know why it's not more common. If you get a Samsung TV it even has a dedicated "PC Mode".

zf00002 19 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A bunch of the mech eng at my work have switched from 2 monitors to big tvs for doing their CAD stuff.

baq a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"PC Mode" or "Gaming mode" or whatever is necessary - I can tell any other mode easily just by moving the mouse, the few frames of lag kill me inside. Fortunately all tvs made in this decade should have one.

mrguyorama 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Lots of us HAVE tried using a TV as a primary monitor, I did for years.

Then I bought a real display and realized oh my god there's a reason they cost so much more.

"Game mode" has no set meaning or standard, and in lots of cases can make things worse. On my TV, it made the display blurry in a way I never even noticed until I fixed it. It's like it was doing N64 style anti-aliasing. I actually had to use a different mode, and that may have had significant latency that I never realized.

Displays are tricky, because it can be hard to notice how good or bad one is without a comparison, which you can't do in the store because they cheat display modes and display content, and nobody is willing to buy six displays and run tests every time they want to buy a new display.

swiftcoder a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Depending on the specific TV, small details like text rendering can be god-awful.

A bunch of TVs don't actually support 4:4:4 chroma subsampling, and at 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 text is bordering on unreadable.

And a bunch of OLEDs have weird sub-pixel layouts that break ClearType. This isn't the end of the world, but you end up needing to tweak the OS text rendering to clean up the result.

xeonax a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have been using a 43 inch TV as a monitor, since last 10 years, currently on a LG. You get lot of screen-space, as well as you can sit away from desk and still use it. Just increase the zoom.

terribleperson a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you play video games, display latency. Most modern TVs offer a way to reduce display latency, but it usually comes at the cost of various features or some impact to visual quality. Gaming monitors offer much better display latencies without compromising their listed capabilities.

Televisions are also more prone to updates that can break things and often have user hostile 'smart' software.

Still, televisions can make a decent monitor and are definitely cheaper per inch.

jmarcher a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For me, on macOS, the main thing is that the subpixel layout is rarely the classic RGB (side by side) that macOS only supports for text antialiasing.

If I were to use a TV, it would be an OLED. That being said, the subpixel layout is not great: https://pcmonitors.info/articles/qd-oled-and-woled-fringing-...

bestham a day ago | parent [-]

IIRC Apple dropped sub pixel antialiasing in Mojave or Sonoma (I hate these names). It makes no sense when Macs are meant to be used with retina class displays.

ahoka a day ago | parent [-]

A.K.A. workaround for a software limitation with hardware. Mac font rendering just sucks.

sim7c00 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

high latency on TVs make it bad for games etc. as anyhting thats sensitive on IO timings can feel a bit off. even 5ms compared to 1 or 2ms response times is noticable by a lot in hand-eye coordination across io -> monitor.

puzzlingcaptcha a day ago | parent | next [-]

It sort of depends on what you perceive as 'high'. Many TVs have a special low-latency "game" display mode. My LG OLED does, and it's a 2021 model. But OLED in general (in a PC monitor as well) is going to have higher latency than IPS for example, regardless of input delay.

tombert 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I have a MiSTer Laggy thing to measure TV latency. In my bedroom Vizio LCD thing, in Game Mode, is between 18-24ms, a bit more than a frame of latency (assuming 60fps).

I don’t play a lot of fast paced games and I am not good enough at any of them to where a frame of latency would drastically affect my performance in any game, and I don’t think two frames of latency is really noticeable when typing in Vim or something.

Dylan16807 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> But OLED in general (in a PC monitor as well) is going to have higher latency than IPS for example, regardless of input delay.

I hope you mean lower? An OLED pixel updates roughly instantly while liquid crystals take time to shift, with IPS in particular trading away speed for quality.

TheOtherHobbes a day ago | parent | prev [-]

OLED suffers from burn-in, so you'll start seeing your IDE or desktop after a while, all the time.

I have a couple of budget vertical Samsung TVs in my monitor stacks.

The quality isn't good enough for photo work, but they're more than fine for text.

dahauns a day ago | parent | prev [-]

In the context of this thread that's a non-issue. Good TVs have been in the ~5ms@120Hz/<10ms@60Hz world for some time now. If you're in the market for a 4K-or-higher display, you won't find much better, even among specialized monitors (as those usually won't be able to drive higher Hz with lower lag with full 4k+ resolution anyway).

112233 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For me it's eye fatigue. When you put large 4k TV far enough it's same view angle as a 27" desk monitor, you're almost 1.5m away from it.

monkpit a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Usually refresh rate and sometimes feature set. And it’s meant to be viewed from further away. I’m sure someone else could elaborate but that’s the gist.

8cvor6j844qw_d6 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

What would you pick for your next laptop if you had to buy one?

I had an Asus laptop, but the frequent security firmware updates for one of the Dell laptop that I had makes me think it might make a good candidate in terms of keeping up with security updates.

Not sure for the current latest models for Asus/Dell/HP/etc., but I liked the fact that disassembly manuals are provided for older Dell and HP. I can hardly find disassembly manuals for Asus when I have to do maintenance such as swapping out thermal paste/pads and clearing out the heatsink fins.

speedgoose a day ago | parent | next [-]

I’m only one data point, but I also swear that I would never buy an Asus laptop again. If you are fine with the operating system, a MacBook Pro is the best in my opinion. It’s not even close.

Otherwise I had okay Dell or Lenovo laptops. Avoid HP, even the high end Zbook ones. A framework might be worth a try if you have a lot of money.

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sspiff a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have used a ZBook G1a for the past few months because it is the only laptop with AMD's Ryzen 395+, and while not thinkpad or XPS/Precision tier, the laptop has been perfectly fine.

xarope a day ago | parent [-]

I've been toying with getting one of these with 128GB of RAM. What's your opinion (especially since you have compared it to thinkpad/xps)?

simulator5g a day ago | parent | prev [-]

You can also run Asahi Linux or Windows for ARM on Macs

sspiff a day ago | parent [-]

I run Asahi Linux as a daily. Support is imperfect and for a daily driver you can probably forget about using anything newer than an M2 at the moment. On my M2, missing features include USB-C video out and microphone support. Windows on ARM is worse and has zero drivers for Mac hardware as far as I know.

a day ago | parent [-]
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tombert 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am a pretty huge fan of Thinkpads. I bought mine a year ago and love it.

8cvor6j844qw_d6 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Thinkpad is also one of my consideration.

Did you choose the T line or X1 line of Thinkpad? What do you think of your current Thinkpad?

The P Thinkpads hardware looks great but is out of my budget, and I don't see how I'll use it at the moment.

Maybe I might need for local usage in the future, but currently I did most model training on Google Colab A100 and general purpose code editing are done remotely.

mrguyorama 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My girlfriend's 2 year old Asus Zenbook had easy to find repair manuals and was pretty repairable. Though consumer laptop naming conventions make googling for it error prone.

The main problem was parts. She had a fan that was defective and noisy, and the Asus parts store didn't have it in stock, and there was one on ebay for $30.

But the replacement was easy, the construction was solid, and there have been no issues since.

>Asus when I have to do maintenance such as swapping out thermal paste/pads and clearing out the heatsink fins.

If you have to do this more than once or twice over a ten year lifespan of a laptop, you probably should invest in air cleaning systems. Mid range consumer laptops are way less thermally constrained than they used to be. Ryzen CPUs are essential for that, though I think Intel now has usable cool laptop CPUs

8cvor6j844qw_d6 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> repair manuals and was pretty repairable

Very interesting, I might consider Asus laptops if repair manuals can be easily found.

Can you point me a direction to find it?

From my experience, Asus does not provide any official repair manuals on the specific laptop site. Googling for model keywords doesn't seem to provide any good sources, aside from the typical YouTube videos but these sometimes misses/skips specific instructions/techniques that are mentioned in official Dell/HP repair guides. Will be glad to finally have reliable sources to get Asus repair manuals.

---

> If you have to do this more than once or twice over a ten year lifespan of a laptop, you probably should invest in air cleaning systems.

If you're referring to home/work area air filters I don't think its possible since the mentioned laptops are not mine. Unless you mean there's a heatsink cleaning tool that cleans the exhaust fins without disassembly? I'll gladly consider this tool if it means I don't have to do a disassembly.

Unfortunately (or fortunately?), I'm the go-to repair guy in the family. Not unusual to find the fans spinning at high with clogged exhaust + likely old thermal paste (not sure for thermal pads helped much but I used new ones anywhare while the laptops disassembled anyway).

While typing this, I recalled one of the old Dells that had to have the bottom cover assembly replaced more than once, the plastic part of the bottom cover holding the metal hinge mechanism is absolutely terrible. Thankfully the specific part numbers in the repair manuals made it easy to order replacement parts.

4kchiefofstaff a day ago | parent | prev [-]

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