Remix.run Logo
metadat 4 days ago

You know, I don't recall ever seeing 1 bar of signal strength on a smartphone. And once it's down to 2 bars, it barely works, if at all.

Human brains: wow, what a bunch of suckers. Damn.

By the way, is it legal to be deceptive in this way?

eqvinox 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> You know, I don't recall ever seeing 1 bar of signal strength on a smartphone.

I do.

I'm from Germany, land of perpetual EDGEing. Highest total GDP in the EU but can't build a mobile network for the life of it.

Then again we somehow forgot how to run trains and build cars without cheating, so I guess it fits.

Want to see a single bar? Come visit, our carriers aren't on the list with that inflate flag enabled. I guess they didn't get the same memo as the car manufacturers ;D

JoshTriplett 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Highest total GDP in the EU but can't build a mobile network for the life of it.

> Then again we somehow forgot how to run trains

The mobile networks don't have enough dB and the trains have too much DB?

hnbad 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

The boneheaded decision to "privatize" rail by creating a state-owned corporation competing with itself, a network of regional corporations with extremely inconsistent funding and separate corporations for various services like literally maintaining infrastructure definitely has resulted in "too much DB". Although I sincerely doubt attempting to actually open up those "markets" by introducing foreign corporations like National Express really does anything other than cannibalize rail services even further.

I still can't get over the justification for abandoning the €9/month universal ticket experiment (and replacing it with a €49/month offering which has since been bumped to €58/month and will soon be raised to €63/month) officially being in part that "rail will be worse when more people use it" (the other mostly being "not enough people used it to demonstrate its value" and "people used the ticket for trips they otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford to make").

We should just nationalize it all properly and make it free at point of service. Let tourists use it for free too, obviously. Infrastructure exists so the economy can happen, its ROI is a functioning industry and society so stop trying to pretend we can reasonably measure its success in profit.

lifestyleguru 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Sir, with this comment you signed up to auto-renewable two years contract.

fransje26 4 days ago | parent [-]

For the bargain of 45€ a month. Noncancelable.

lifestyleguru 4 days ago | parent [-]

Direct debit required, service not guaranteed.

microtonal 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I feel you. We have stellar coverage pretty much everywhere in NL. Heck, I was recently in a work video meeting in the car, not a single drop. The route included part of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afsluitdijk

Yet, when we visit family in Germany, five minutes after crossing the border we are in a cellular dead zone.

kmm 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Interesting to see you have a different experience. I'm not sure I would call it stellar. On the train route between Den Haag and Amsterdam, one of the busiest routes in the country presumably, reception is constantly dropping out. I'd love to be able to work on the train, but it's completely impossible if you need a network connection for anything.

Perhaps the route being so busy is the cause of the connectivity issues, but it's still baffling to me how bad it is, given that the amount of mobile devices trying to connect must be very predictable.

Cthulhu_ 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

+1 on the train, mobile internet in the train is really bad. I kinda get it because you're in a faraday cage, moving between cells quickly, and frequently far outside of inhabited areas but still.

I'm pretty sure the in-train internet also relies on mobile networks, so that's unreliable too. Plus any bandwidth is taken up by people scrolling through tiktok.

janandonly 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

But in NL all the trains have WiFi, no?

hnbad 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Germany is a developing country when it comes to broadband let alone wireless internet.

The short version is that the chancellor we had in the 1990s didn't like how the public broadcasting channels were talking about his failures and wanted to push the development of private broadcasters (who being beholden to financial interests rather than objective news coverage mostly spoke favorably of him) by prioritizing cable television over fiber. A surprising number of things came downstream from that pivotal decision, e.g. the completely braindead way we sold frequency bands (which resulted in some literally remaining unused because there were initially no requirements to actually do anything with them).

lifestyleguru 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Moving to Germany from countries where mobile networks function is traumatic. My welcome experience was USB stick with faulty drivers, balance zeroed immediately because of not activated packet, then sipping expensive 1GB data packets over choppy connections. Of course that was all my fault. The only reliable thing was monthly billing and enforcement of contract length by the telecom. When I heard before arrival "there is no internet in the apartment but you can simply buy USB stick" I had subconsciously felt there will be problems. Fuck, I hate these memories so much. Fuck everything about it and everyone involved.

eru 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Highest total GDP in the EU but can't build a mobile network for the life of it.

GDP per capita (or GDP per square metre) would be a more useful indication here. Otherwise, you could throw a bunch of poor countries together--just for purposes of statistics, and expect a better mobile network?

wongarsu 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

GDP per square metre is probably the best metric, even though it's the more rarely used one. [1] has a neat map of Europe by GDP density.

However Germany is still very high in both GDP per capita and GDP per land area. Roughly on par with the UK, and far higher than France which has a much better mobile network

1: https://ssz.fr/gdp/

eru 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> GDP per square metre is probably the best metric, even though it's the more rarely used one. [1] has a neat map of Europe by GDP density.

Well, it would be the best metric, if your country was homogeneously populated.

If everyone lives in one big city and there's literally no one in the rest of the country, then I expect mobile reception (and every other service) to be pretty good for everyone, because they all stay in the big city.

> However Germany is still very high in both GDP per capita and GDP per land area. Roughly on par with the UK, and far higher than France which has a much better mobile network

Yes, France, Germany and UK are all equal enough in these measures (well within an order of magnitude) that the much bigger difference in mobile networks is most likely due to some other factors.

mr_toad 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> If everyone lives in one big city and there's literally no one in the rest of the country, then I expect mobile reception (and every other service) to be pretty good for everyone, because they all stay in the big city.

Sometimes the reception is good but the data rate is poor because of too few towers per person, or because the cellphone companies connections to the wider internet are saturated.

wongarsu 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Luckily Germany is pretty homogeneously populated. Far more so than the UK (England is pretty even, but Scotland is far emptier) or France (1/5th live in the Paris metro area).

swiftcoder 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> GDP per square metre is probably the best metric

GDP per square metre only really works for countries with uniform population density. For example, by European standards, Spain is huge, and basically entirely empty outside of a handful of cities...

dmurray 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are some economics of scale that work best at the country level.

Even with the EU single market, mobile phone operations almost always follow country borders. You'll get a different set of providers in Germany than you'll get one km away on the other side of the Rhine in France. Even though some of them may have the same name or the same ultimate owner or both, and even though you can roam on the other side of the border, you'll have a contract with a different entity, and different people will build and maintain the networking equipment.

Conversely, in the US, the major carriers all have nationwide coverage.

eqvinox 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Thing is, mobile networks are national affairs. A bunch of small countries has a lot of small telcos. Germany has 3 (2? not sure with the mergers) large telcos.

samplatt 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I also do, I'm Australian. I regularly experience both congestion caused by tower over-subscription as well as traveling waaaay out into the country where there's no reception, even on the Telstra network that boasts better coverage than everyone else by a mile.

Panzer04 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I rarely encounter outright congestion in Australia tbh, but then again I avoid watching videos on the train.. so that's probably indicative of something :D

Coverage is decent on Telstra, but if you're out of town reception is rarely any good, presumably because there's little to no incentive to improve it when there's no on around to need it.

_carbyau_ 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Better coverage may be claimed. But as you know, Australia is a big place.

The few farmers I know have a rough idea of the on-the-ground cell coverage. They say things like "this side of the hill/town" usually. I've seen them deliberately walk to the other side of a silo to make a call.

I assume that the coverage maps are assumed cell-tower-coverage-if-shit-is-not-in-the-way. No surprise radios are common.

bitwize 4 days ago | parent [-]

A Diné (Navajo) slang word for "cellphone" is "bił nijoobałí" which means "the thing you spin around with". Coverage on rez is not great you see, and in some places is so marginal that whether you get a usable signal depends not just on position but orientation...

robot-wrangler 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Coverage on rez is not great you see

Tangent but this is a pretty interesting topic. I've heard people speculate that local politics deliberately prevents such infrastructure, waiting for some kind of kickbacks to make it worth their while. Others suggest that it happens because federal telecom subsidies aimed at improving rural connectivity don't apply, as a kind of retaliation for tribal sovereignty. Way off-grid, ok, maybe it's simply not worth it to corporate telecom, but whatever the cause coverage even in fairly populated areas around Kayenta/Monument Valley is also quite bad in a way that would be infrequent in comparable communities in say, nowhere Appalachia.

Many a suburban parent of smart-phone addicted children would romanticize the whole thing and actually be kind of jealous of a situation like that. Years back and on the other side of the world, tourists were very scandalized about more roads and towers around Annapurna in Nepal.. but of course the locals usually do not actually like to be cut off from the world.

More telecom is probably good despite the evils, but fuck commercial billboards in particular. Those are still creeping closer to the Grand Canyons and Yosemites, and they suck whether it's for multinationals like McDonalds, or for locally owned gas stations or hotels that put cash into tribal communities. Ban them all like Hawaii, and everyone will be astonished to learn that the world keeps turning..

rendall 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Cool: https://endangeredlanguages.com/resource/navajo-word-day-cel...

ssl-3 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Humans are strange indeed.

I work with cellular BDA-DAS[1] gear sometimes, and I don't recall the last time I looked at the signal strength display on my phone. It has probably been years.

For me: It either works, or it doesn't work. It is either fast-enough, or impossibly-slow. It's very binary, and the bar graph at the top never told me a damned thing about what I should expect.

[1]: Bi-Directional Amplifier, Distributed Antenna System. In theory, such constructs can make indoor cellular coverage quite good inside of buildings that previously had none. In reality it can be... complicated. And while the bar graph doesn't mean anything, I still need ways to see what's happening as I spend hours, days, or [sometimes!] weeks surveying and troubleshoot and stuff. The phone can report things like RSRP, RSRQ, and some other tasty bits instead of just a useless graph -- and from there, I can sometimes make a hand-waving guess as to what I may reasonably expect for performance.

But that stuff is normally pretty well hidden from view.

wtallis 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> It is either fast-enough, or impossibly-slow. It's very binary, and the bar graph at the top never told me a damned thing about what I should expect.

A few months ago, I was in a remote area at anchor on a sailboat, about 6.5 miles from the nearest highway through the swamp, with only a few farms and a handful of houses within that radius. With my phone up in the cockpit of the boat and tethered over WiFi to my laptop, I was able to download a movie. As the boat swung on anchor, the download was occasionally interrupted, but when data was flowing it was consistently 5-10 MB/s over a claimed 5G link; the movie downloaded in much less time than its runtime. I assume I wasn't competing with much other traffic on that tower, wherever it was. So my experience was even more binary than yours.

The phone's signal indicator did seem to accurately indicate when it had no usable signal at all, but beyond that I'm not sure it was providing any useful information. And I'm not sure if it could have told me anything of use other than "connected" or "not connected". The very marginal connection was still faster than I had any right to expect for those conditions.

vachina 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

HN is the only website that works on 1 bar. If HN doesn’t load then nothing loads.

1718627440 4 days ago | parent [-]

SSH also works over crappy connections. It even works reliably when the network went down for minutes.

Affric 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I had my car break down in remote mountains and that little image had me climb up trees and eventually find a place where I could make a call from. Once I had two bars they could hear me, before that it was the case that they weren't getting what I was transmitting.

pants2 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I had a very dangerous 1-bar the other day. You see I was in the Canadian wilderness relying on iPhone text-over-satellite, which works well, but only when you have no signal. I needed to relay a message to the rest of my group when suddenly I find myself with one bar of 3G that was completely and totally inoperable. No messages were getting through. But to make matters worse, since my phone thought it had a bar, it wouldn't activate satellite. I tried every setting and then for 20 minutes hiding behind various rocks to try to get my one bar to go away when finally I found a spot that would let me satellite text again.

tzs 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Try going into a Home Depot. I don't think I've ever found one where aside from fairly near the front I've had other than 0 or 1 bars, across a variety of phones and carriers and in neighborhoods where the signal outside the store was strong.

The net is telling me this is because of the aisle after aisle of tall metal shelving and the building itself also has a lot of metal in the construction.

It is quite annoying when you are trying to use the Home Depot app to look up something.

bombcar 4 days ago | parent [-]

At least Home Depot usually provides free WiFi. Until very recently our Costco was a faraday cage with no cell and no WiFi offered.

They finally added WiFi a year ago or so.

I hated having to walk near the doors to send a “was it this” question to the wife.

davemp 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’ve always just blamed the extreme bloat of the web and lack of design around poor connections for 2bar lack of performance. HN usual works fine on but that’s about it for sites I visit.

tiznow 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Consider yourself blessed, the one place in my neighborhood where I get one bar on LTE is the same place I once was repairing my car. Awful experience but the rest of the subdivision is fine.

lxgr 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For some reason, I've spent several weeks (across a few years) in Italy with exactly one bar of signal strength on an iPhone when roaming on Vodafone.

It must actually be tricky to space out towers that sparsely without creating any obvious coverage gaps, but if anyone is up to the task, it's certainly Vodafone (let's not talk about the actual service quality, though).

Yizahi 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Android phones show 1 bar pretty reasonably and fair. To illustrate this, I have 1 bar on both my SIM modules right now, which translates to the -125 dBm signal on both. So the connection is up, but it is borderline low.

Wifi-calling to the rescue :)

jrmg 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Our house is in kind of a hollow despite being in a city, and I (and guests - all networks seem just as bad) get one bar basically all the time at home.

Phone calls are hit-and miss without WiFi calling switched on.

tatersolid 3 days ago | parent [-]

My house is also like this. No signal on any carrier, and same with one of my neighbors but not neighbor on the opposite side.

Looking at satellite view it is clear that the local municipal water tower is between a huge cell tower near the highway and my house. All carriers seem to lease that same tower only in my area.

It wasn’t like this when I moved in but I guess the carriers consolidated on that big tower near the highway about two years ago.

Radio shadows are a thing I guess.

bombcar 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Rural - I see one bar quite often, and sometimes a call will barely hold on through zero bars (works best if I’m just listening).

But one bar is death for Internet - though HN will often load; anything heavier won’t.

dawnerd 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have one right now and internet is working well enough. Even says lte.

MangoToupe 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I see it all the time driving through the country. Probably a dozen times just today driving through the american east coast. I agree that two bars is the bare minimum for any functionality though.

3eb7988a1663 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Heh, my phone consistently reports 1 bar inside my apartment within a major metropolitan area. Indeed binary, because it works enough for the few times I actually take calls not on wifi.

mattmaroon 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wish I could post a pic on HN because I’m reading this with one bar. But it’s on iOS. Does Apple just not let carriers do this?

jmspring 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

spend some time in rural areas, you will see a one or two bar here and there and sometimes it works, sometimes it is not.

4 days ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]