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dlisboa 4 days ago

I feel like this is really an American culture thing where parties or dinner parties are mostly the responsibility of the host. In movies or TV there’s even a common theme of guests judging the host’s hosting abilities.

In Brazil you throw a party to people you like and they all have a hand in helping you, sharing the load. Everyone will be responsible for some part of it, all of it is organized informally, there are no real formalities to the event. No one cares about making a science out of it.

I’ve never heard of a person complaining about party quality or comparing hosting abilities.

Aurornis 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

America is a huge place with a lot of different cultures. Even within a big city you’ll find social circles with different ideas of what partying is like. I have friend groups that have completely different ideas of what gatherings are and I adapt depending on the group. There is not a singular American party style.

> In movies or TV there’s even a common theme of guests judging the host’s hosting abilities.

That’s a movie trope. You can find parties and social groups like this if you search around long enough, but most people are decidedly not like this.

Don’t take American movies too seriously as an indicator of American culture.

thomassmith65 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

  America is a huge place with a lot of different cultures
Sorry to be persnickety, but... so is Brazil!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil

brational 4 days ago | parent [-]

Right. Which makes it even more absurd that a Brazilian would make a singular classification to the whole lot.

dlisboa 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Nah, Brazilian culture is pretty homogenous in that regard. A lot of our culture is dedicated to not looking posh or seeming too rich, more value is placed on being perceived as down to earth (some exceptions notwithstanding).

Parties are communal and informal partly because of income: everyone realizes bankrolling a large party by themselves is pretty expensive so everyone pitches in. Even if you can afford it you don't want your guests to think you're too rich as that's not as cool.

We're only exposed to formal dinner parties and large orchestrated events through fiction. Even the Brazilian fiction that features it carries a more aristocratic view of parties like that, reserved for the ultra rich who want to feel European.

So that single classification is pretty correct.

vasco 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

So I live in Amsterdam and my friends are from about 6 European countries and we do the same as the Brazilian guy.

Imagine being in the playground as a kid. You just are there. And if its fun, its not fun because of you, its fun because of the group which is there. So are parties, they just "are".

All these rules you guys have appear to me like watching a movie about a psychopath lining up pens in the living room.

robocat 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

You are just being judgy.

Dong think of it as rules, think of it as someone explaining etiquette. That is hard to write down without sounding weird.

I bet you are oversimplifying how good parties are created in your own culture. If you tried to write down the actual etiquette it would come out sounding weird to us all.

Humans create odd rituals and expectations about everything social. You only really notice it when polling at other cultures - ie is hard to see in your own culture because you implicitly understand the "rules".

#1 is amazingly insightful:

  1) Prioritize your ease of being over any other consideration: parties are like babies, if you’re stressed while holding them they’ll get stressed too. Every other decision is downstream of your serenity
Well written. Unobvious to many. I'm sure we all recognise when a hostess or host is trying far too hard and failing badly. It is tricky to learn the skill of being a relaxed hostess/host (some people do it naturally, or have learnt from others).
xxs 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I'd also strongly support the notion - the article is very US centric, It feels overly concerned about being a host, providing close to a formal experience and expectations for/from the guests, too.

vasco 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You're being downvoted probably because hn is too sensitive to you calling me judgy but you have a good point. It's hard to write about this without sounding weird, and I guess if I wanted to write about what makes a good party I'd also sound weird. I guess my point was more about the mindset of how you even think about the thing. For me it just "is", and that's a good part of why it works. I wouldn't want to think everyone at the party is focused on maximizing the fun instead of, you know, just naturally having fun.

Like imagine if during sex you think your partner is just meta-thinking about giving you a good experience - they should just be enjoying and so should you. To me this example makes it more visceral but upon reflection I'm just making a basic "live in the moment" cliche.

swiftcoder 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don't know about the Netherlands, but having spent a bit of time in Germany, you may be underestimating the mount of party planning that is ingrained into the various European cultures.

From an outside perspective, even fairly casual German gatherings feel like they are orchestrated with a level of precision that would do a military campaign proud - but the Germans I was with don't really seem to notice this (likely because they all already know their roles, and to them it's just part of their culture)

MrScruff 3 days ago | parent [-]

I don’t think this is a specific cultural thing, in my experience some people host more curated gathering, some more relaxed and informal - doesn’t matter where you’re from. People just tend to think the way their social group does it is the ‘norm’.

swiftcoder 3 days ago | parent [-]

I think there's a cultural element to how much of it people will know to do without being explicitly told what to do.

In the US successful gatherings tend to require a fair bit of wrangling - I've been to more than one potluck where everyone showed up with roughly the same dish...

MrScruff 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I think that goes everywhere though, I’ve been to at least one of every type of party described in this discussion thread in the last year and I’m not American.

shadyKeystrokes 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

MR. Quiche - we meet again..

3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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robocat 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Thanks. I'm no fan of the article, and likely for the reason you mention: trying to write down how to perform social interactions is extremely weird (although I don't think it is "sociopathic"). I do admire people that are good at explaining their internal social thinking!

It was interesting to read in part because different people do things so differently: I'm sure we could find successful party creators that have "rules" that are completely incompatible! An example, the writer clearly very carefully curates their invite list; however an opposite technique can be to have zero curation (which can definitely be great). The network of social ties leads to certain outcomes without forcing.

> For me it just "is", and that's a good part of why it works.

Naturalness is great for those that are smart. The implied rule is to "be natural": that rule makes sense to write yet it is simultaneously nonsense.

Overthinking anything is silly. But sometimes it can lead to insight. I think that "Let your irrational mind run the show" is also a good rule for life yet somewhere we need to fit in rationality even though that is a contradiction.

I think their #1 rule is strangely unobvious to some people. I'm a social idiot yet I can think of more than one case where I have tried to encourage a hostess to let go of their hostessing anxiety (when I've felt I could do so tactfully and hurtlessly). It isn't a sexist thing, it is just a personal observation that it is a common issue (I would try and help a guy out too if I saw the problem and I thought I could help rather than harm).

It seems maybe I've pondered the above, yet writing it down is just freaky weird. Perhaps writing is the issue!? Talking of course has its own failures.

Ideally we intuitively soak up good ways to do things. If we are fortunate then our friends help us to learn when we've been misled by our intuitions.

Going too meta is another fail!

bonoboTP 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It's the same with dating. The American rules about first dates, second dates, the exclusivity talk etc. is just not how it works in Europe. Maybe with online dating it moves towards it, but the regular way is much more informal and low pressure.

hitarpetar 3 days ago | parent [-]

I'm American and have no clue wtf you're talking about

albedoa 3 days ago | parent [-]

Same. This is completely foreign to me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45797794

It's the conclusions of someone whose understanding of America is formed entirely from television.

watwut 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Americans tend to think about themselves as informal/loose, but they evolved to be very formal and structural, in reality. Tend to like a lot of formal rules about everything.

If you look at Latin American movies, they themselves are different then American movies and show different culture. They are not the exact copy of their cultures of original, but they certainly show quite different social behavior and values.

bonoboTP 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's similar to how they schedule all the free time of their kids too. Or their own free time for that matter. Must spend every minute being productive, every minute counted towards some labeled activity. Everything that isn't classified as one of these things has to be cut out, minimized, made more efficient etc.

nxor 3 days ago | parent [-]

This is a great point. It's not as true outside cities but it's extremely true inside them.

anon35 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Tend to like a lot of formal rules about everything.

I would amend to: what Americans don't like to accept are what they see as preventable mistakes. The least American sentiment of all is "shit happens". Americans sometimes say that, but they don't mean it. What they really mean: "this shit shouldn't be allowed to happen". Hence the rules, and (in the extreme) the litigiousness.

philipallstar 4 days ago | parent [-]

> what Americans don't like to accept are what they see as preventable mistakes

Most high-achieving societies are this way.

fragmede 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Except for red Solo cups. That's absolutely a real American party thing.

Source: Went to college in the US, also have been to stores in America where these cups are sold.

nxor 3 days ago | parent [-]

No one's saying nothing at all from the movies is real

fragmede 3 days ago | parent [-]

Hey look, someone’s auditioning to be the party’s QA department!

nxor 3 days ago | parent [-]

Says the guy who cited his claim that red solo cups are American. Shocking

fragmede 3 days ago | parent [-]

since this is a party thread, i'll be the first to say it...

you don't get invited to many parties, do you?

4 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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jrochkind1 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think some cultures are definitely more social/cooperative and some less, and Brazil and the US may be on opposite ends. I also think the US may be having a social crisis at the moment.

But my guess is that in Brazil many of the things in this list are things that party host(s) (and their circles) are doing, intuitively and without thinking about it. Or different things with similar effects.

I didn't see anything in the OP about anyone comparing party quality or hosting abilities.

But when you go to a party and it's a great party, often it's because someone put effort into it. The better they are at it, the fewer people might notice. and it might come naturally to them, maybe they never had to make a list like this (a very particular kind of brain, sure). But a succesful party (where people enjoy themselves and it feels good) has people putting energy into making it vibe. Again, perhaps inuitivley and naturally and because it's something everyone learns how to do organically in a society. But I'm gonna guess this is true in Brazil too.

pessimizer 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I feel like this is really an American culture thing where parties or dinner parties are mostly the responsibility of the host. In movies or TV there’s even a common theme of guests judging the host’s hosting abilities.

This is really a function of the type of party and of the type of people one is inviting to a party rather than a universal among Americans. I was brought up that you don't come to a party empty-handed. If you're going to a party where you know everybody else was brought up that way, you call ahead to see what will be lacking (mostly so everybody doesn't bring alcohol.)

I've brought chairs to parties; if you haven't ever done that you probably don't know what I'm talking about.

There's also a "dinner party" culture, though, where you're going to cook for a bunch of people. They should bring alcohol, but they don't always because people don't always drink, and their bringing alcohol doesn't get you out of providing alcohol. The expectation is that you have a reciprocal party rather than everyone contribute at this party i.e. you're inviting people who also might have dinner parties. They're bringing a guest or two to yours, you'll also bring a guest or two to theirs.

The second type of party is more conversation-oriented, and sometimes the contribution you're making is how interesting your guest is. I'm still bringing wine or something, though. Can't show up empty-handed.

brianpan 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even potluck parties tend to be better on average when someone or a few people are "in charge". In my experience, even when people are just getting together for dinner out, there are people who step up more to organize.

Are you sure there aren't certain people driving these "informal" parties?

ccanassa 3 days ago | parent [-]

In Brazil, you are expected to bring food or drinks when you are invited as a guest to a party. If you stay until the end, you are also expected to help clean up the place. Guests will often take over certain parts of the party without even asking, such as preparing drinks, taking care of the barbecue, serving people, or going to the store to buy more drinks.

roncesvalles 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

there is some nuance

1. Sometimes an "inner circle" will co-host a party but the other attendees are not expected to do anything except show up and have a good time, and maybe bring booze. This is common with roommates and in college.

2. What you're describing verbatim is a potluck. Potlucks in the US are popular among immigrant groups, family friend groups, or parties for clubs or associations. But ultimately they're considered a bit uncool/laidback and don't fit the definition of an American party. They're better described as "get-togethers".

com2kid 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> What you're describing verbatim is a potluck. Potlucks in the US are popular among immigrant groups, family friend groups, or parties for clubs or associations. But ultimately they're considered a bit uncool/laidback and don't fit the definition of an American party. They're better described as "get-togethers".

As a foodie in the Pacific Northwest I disagree with this statement.

Potlucks are a chance for people to show off their skills. Some of the best potlucks I've been to have a competition aspect to them, complete with prizes.

As a host of a potluck I'll handle drinks, entertainment, and renting a venue, but the guest list is around 80% people who I can rely on to cook a damn good dish.

blovescoffee 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I would not consider this to be a potluck. I've been to many parties in both LATAM and the US. LATAM parties are indeed just like US parties very often but in many cases they are much more "communal" without being a potluck per-se. A potluck is still too formal a name for what I've experienced at least. Someone's uncle will bring a piñata, someone's aunt will cook pozole, a cousin will bring a speaker, and so on. And these types of parties are not "uncool" or even "laidback" they can be wild.

yugioh3 4 days ago | parent [-]

For me in the US, potluck describes the style of food and culinary expectation of guests. The actual gathering could be fun and wild if it’s a fun and wild family potluck or uncool and lame if it’s an elementary school fundraiser potluck.

fragmede 4 days ago | parent [-]

Til you find out that Lucy added LSD to her chicken casserole, that is!

robocat 3 days ago | parent [-]

Don't leave your special cookies or shots where norms might consume them.

A friend left her brownies in a Tupperware in the fridge at work. The colleagues decided to help themselves (good people, so I assume with the intention to replace). There were some rather unfortunate outcomes including hospital visits.

Please learn from her mistake: don't ever leave drugged food where other people/minors/animals might eat it.

fragmede 3 days ago | parent [-]

How many times do I have to bake laxative cookies before people understand if it's not theirs, don't eat it?

bitshiftfaced 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> In Brazil you throw a party to people you like and they all have a hand in helping you, sharing the load. Everyone will be responsible for some part of it, all of it is organized informally, there are no real formalities to the event. No one cares about making a science out of it.

> I’ve never heard of a person complaining about party quality or comparing hosting abilities.

This is all true in my experience as well, and I live in the US. Maybe I don't go to enough parties, though.

cvoss 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's two modes that I know of in American dinner/meal party culture. 1) Host provides main dish, and guests bring miscellaneous supporting items (ideal for a casual party where the menu need not be coordinated carefully, and people spread throughout the house). 2) Host provides everything or almost everything (more formal occasions, typically sitting at one table; guests might bring wine or dessert). The latter is a holdover from peak 1950s culture/expectations. Many of the expectations and protocols have relaxed tremendously. But it's still a thing. And it's a ton of fun to pull off, if you're into it. A well-executed dinner party leaves me with a warm glow that lasts well into the next day.

o11c 4 days ago | parent [-]

1 can definitely be split into 1a) host provides main dish and assigns specific dishes to specific guests, and 1b) full-blown potluck with no official dish assignments at all, hopefully no load-bearing grandma has died since the last potluck.

johnnyanmac 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

House parties are more common in America, so that may be a big reason. A party in that context isn't just about gathering people, it's bringing people into your own living space to be judged upon.

And of course, many US gatherings are also means to move up the social ladder. Meeting new connections, finding mates, or getting intel on an area. Very capitalistic oriented.

hitarpetar 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> And of course, many US gatherings are also means to move up the social ladder. Meeting new connections, finding mates, or getting intel on an area. Very capitalistic oriented.

just like every other claim on this thread, that depends on who you spend time with, and you can find the same behavior in literally any country

johnnyanmac 3 days ago | parent [-]

Yes, everything varies. We're talking about a country so I'm speaking about a country's general habits.

hitarpetar 3 days ago | parent [-]

there are no "general habits" in a culturally heterogenous population of 340 million people

johnnyanmac 3 days ago | parent [-]

You're not going to be a very good statistician or data scientist if you have that mentality. Facebook became a trillionaire over the ability aggregate seemingly unoqie data of billions and provide value to adverts with it.

Like any other engineering, it's not about perfection. Being able to peedict that even 10% of these 340m people do a certain thing a certain way is enough to capture and establish a trend. That's all I'm doing here.

hitarpetar 2 days ago | parent [-]

ok. can you share your methods for the statistical analysis you performed on American culture then?

johnnyanmac 2 days ago | parent [-]

Of course. When I'm done with my job search I'll be sure to resume work on my thesis on American party composition.

Any sooner: my going rate for my findings is $3000 up front to resume and finalize my findings.

nxor 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

So people under things other than capitalism don't behave that way. Right.

johnnyanmac 3 days ago | parent [-]

Treat everything as a hustle to further oneself in life? Well, sure. Feudal courts in high class society also do this under nearly any other paradigm. So it's not just capitalism.

Capitalism matters less than the hyper individualistic culture here. But one drives the other in this case (other things can drive individualism too).

hshdhdhehd 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I like that idea as it means yiu are more likely to host a party. It is also less expensive to do so.

The UK has a show dedicated to a competition to see who is the best host of a dinner party. (come dine with me). Its a great show but shows the culture. The poor host has to pay for everything, prep, cook while entertaining the guest and usually put on some show or activity for extra points.

dlisboa 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> I like that idea as it means yiu are more likely to host a party. It is also less expensive to do so.

Yeah, you're expected to help in some way. The idea being that a party at someone's house is likely an inconvenience to that person so if you want more of that to happen you should make sure the host feels barely any pain. Even if you don't bring anything to the party you should be helping place the table, carrying furniture, doing dishes...something.

People who don't help at all aren't well perceived and will probably not be invited again.

someone7x 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I lived in the UK briefly and this episode broke my brain Series 3 Episode 53:

> Host Forbes Robertson, the only man in the group, is Ayr's answer to Donald Trump, and his menu plan includes pigs' trotters, which don't appeal to his guests

lanfeust6 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> you throw a party to people you like

How many is that? It's comfortable being with people I like, but I just consider that "hanging out".

The appeal of parties to me is it's a social expectation to mingle with new people I otherwise would never have had the opportunity to speak to.

dlisboa 4 days ago | parent [-]

Could be a handful or a couple dozen, depends on the person really. Birthdays are more packed.

There’s no real expectation in a party here. Usually you’ll call up people you know from different parts of your life. People bring plus ones so someone from work will be chatting to your family member, a high school friend to someone’s plus one, etc.

That’s usually how people strike new relationships after a certain age.

dm319 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You've not had instructional videos on how to throw a party[1]? Odd!

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXRkgtnBmzs&pp

Aeolun 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think parties in the Netherlands consist mostly of “have house, bring booze” and things get taken from there. At least, when I was in high school/university (we got to buy alcohol from 16 at the time).

fragmede 4 days ago | parent [-]

High school/University house parties in capitalist America have a "have house, bring money" theme, because drinking age is 21, so the oldest person buys the alcohol for everybody else, and things get taken from there.

nxor 3 days ago | parent [-]

When was the US not capitalist? And you really think if we weren't, the theme would be different?

fragmede 3 days ago | parent [-]

it's an interesting culture inculcation process. As a child with no concept of how money works, you go from a world where food and drinks magically appear, to a world where you're a part of the system. There’s this divide as the drinking age is 21, but people attend college starting at around age 18. Far from everyone goes to college in the US, but around 18 is when, legally, kids turn into adults. So then there's this problem where you can't go to any of the legal government-regulated bars nearby, but you also now, suddenly, have the freedom to do anything you want because for most Americans, this is the first time they're living out from under their parents reign. So you have this group, A, with their money, who want product B (alcohol), and only group C (21+ aged people) can purchase it. If the drinking age was, say, 16, culturally, it would be easier to just have and expect people to bring a six pack of beer on their way over. But since it's restricted to age 21+, trying to acquire alcohol becomes a whole thing.

Alright, so you're 18, you're in college, and it's a Friday night, what're you gonna get up to? You're still a raging mess of hormones from puberty and want to seek out people you find sexually interesting, and it turns out alcohol is a social lubricant. But you can't just go to the store and buy some alcohol, so you have figure out something else. You can try and have fun without alcohol (which, to the future alcoholics out there: this entirely possible!), or you can figure out a way to acquire some. You can steal it which then they can't check your id, you can try and fake the system with a fake id (which needs to be created or purchased). You can try to get someone you know or a stranger to buy you some, and give them a generous service fee. Or you can simply attend a house party where there is underage drinking where you have to know somebody to get in, but you just have to show up and give them money (for a red Solo cup). But therin lies the indoctrination into capitalism because if you organize and source a keg of beer for, say, a nice round $100 to make the math easier, it has 165 cups of beer. If you sell a cup of beer of $5, 165*$5-$100 for the keg = $725. Which isn't a ton of money split out amongst all participants, but once you put that into a calculator, or better yet, a Google Sheet, then you're hooked.

But that wasn't your question. The US was less capitalist before the Internet. Which is funny, because the Internet was supposed to break down walls and eliminate unnecessary middlemen. It might just be a timing thing, though. There is a late-stage private equity version of capitalism that seems more prevalent as of late. Where "late" is defined as since, I don't know, 1920. The particular part I'm thinking of is when grocery stores became chains and those chains had enough excess revenue that they hired psychologists to optimize the store layout to get people to buy more shit. I don't know anyone who thinks that money isn't useful, but it's the concentration of it that has become problematic. That whole "enshittification" thing is borne out of that. Something making $1 million / year being "not interesting to VC firms" comes out of that.

If we weren't capitalist, what would the theme be?

In lieu of cash, the theme would be bring something to the party to make the party better. Mostly alcohol, but also interesting people, music, trinkets; some other token of appreciation and something to engage people with. But because of the above described process, "just show up with cash" is the mindset for many Americans (including me, when I can't help it!). It's moved to digital, like Venmo/Cash.app/Zelle these days, and apparently the newest generation isn't drinking as much, so we'll have to see where it all goes though.

dyauspitr 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah as a naturalized immigrant, Americans are judgy. Everything will be judged relative to something similar. In Asia a party is a party. Food and drink are usually accounted for and the rest just happens. No one really thinks of “rating” it the next day. The whole thing is low pressure and parties are frequent and plentiful because of it.

johnsillings 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

sounds way better that way

mingus88 4 days ago | parent [-]

They are called potlucks or cookouts in the U.S. and they happen all the time.

In fact, they are probably a lot more common than having a huge party (so large that you have to invite people in batches of half a dozen at a time) completely planned and executed by a single person.

This article is good, don’t get me wrong, but this type of event planning is not really representative of how folk in the U.S. get together

com2kid 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Some summers I plan on BBQing every weekend and I throw invites out on Thursday. People typically bring something and we all have a good time.

For the parties as described in the article, I maybe go to one or two a year tops. Before I had a kid I used to host large parties like the kind described (~15 people tops though), now I just attend and contribute.

johnsillings 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I live in the US, and the type of party in the article is way more familiar to me than potlucks or cookouts – but that's just me

AmbroseBierce 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes but it probably has a bigger overlap with the kind of people that would use Google to find an article that says how to throw a good party.