Nobody is saying citizens need to carry papers.

My only point is that when a deportation order shows a name and face, people can still produce fraudulent documents showing they are a citizen.

It’s not a uniquely American problem.

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habinero 4 days ago | parent [-]

6,000 supposed papers for a pool of 5 million immigrants seems like an extremely minor problem that doesn't require shooting food bank workers to enforce.

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refurb 4 days ago | parent [-]

Again, that’s 6,000 papers from a relatively quiet USCBP office where illegal immigration rates are low.

If you want a national estimate that grossly undercounts, just multiply by the 20 field offices. Now we’re in the hundreds of thousands.

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habinero 4 days ago | parent [-]

So what? Still seems like a minor problem.

If the paperwork is that easy to duplicate, it's on the government to make it more difficult, not beating in the faces of citizens until they produce documentation they don't have.

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refurb 3 days ago | parent [-]

I feel like you’re being disingenuous in your argument.

Hundreds of thousands of aliens with fraudulent documents seems like a huge problem to me.

Keep in mind it’s US law for every alien to keep documentation of legal status on their person at all times (US code 8 USC § 1304(e)).

Since we know fraudulent documents are not uncommon, then immigration officials must have some powers to validate a person’s status if uncertainty remains.

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matthewdgreen 3 days ago | parent [-]

It's only a problem if (1) the immigrants in question behaving in a dangerous and criminal fashion, or (2) you need to urgently deport millions of peaceful, non-dangerous immigrants in an extremely short period of time, and you don't care about the harm this does to society.

Obviously in case (1) you can just detain and carefully identify people, since they're actually doing dangerous things and you'll have probable cause to detain them. Note that this was the case that nearly all the 2024 election rhetoric was focused on (i.e., deporting the "rapists and murders".)

In practice we're seeing that the true goal is (2), rapid emergency deportation and arrest of non-criminal immigrants. There is absolutely no emergency that requires this to be done quickly or carelessly, such that there's any risk to US citizens' (or immigrants) civil rights. It can be done carefully, with strong evidence, without violating civil rights. But of course, violating civil rights and creating disorder appears to be the goal.

	▲	refurb 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Why would a country not deport non-criminal illegal aliens? Not being American and having lived in 4 different countries, I’ve never encountered this attitude except in the US. Controlling who enters and stays in your country is just table stakes for a functioning state. Without it, you don’t even have control over basic things like security. In every other country I’ve lived in anyone who enters illegally or overstays is promptly removed. So to answer your question, fraudulent documents is a massive problem. Now not only do you have no control over who enters and stays you have no ability to even determine who these people are even if you do encounter them.