A few things:

1) Behringer had a reputation for poor quality and unreliability dating back to at least I think the 90s. In my experience that’s no longer fair criticism, at least for the products I’ve owned, but the reputation persists.

2) Ethical issues. They mass produce using cheap labour in the far east (I forget exactly where). There was some controversy involving a synth/instrument sponsorship a few years ago that took an excessively long time to materialise. They are perceived to rip off other companies’ IP and undercut on price because they don’t incur the R&D costs. I seem to remember some noise/drama around one or two partnerships as well - maybe the UBxa? Again, I can’t remember.

3) They are a budget brand whereas the synth and pro audio communities are somewhat overpopulated with vocal gatekeepy snobs. I’m sure they’re probably a minority but, at least in the online world, they’re often loud and visible. You will, for example, be pretty reliably downvoted for saying anything positive about Behringer in the Reddit synth communities.

4) Uli is perceived to be a bit of an odd duck, again, by people who tend to make noise online.

For myself, I don’t love everything they’ve done business wise, but they make a good product that won’t break the bank for those on a budget. I have a couple of their TB-303 clones, which are very good (loads of companies make 303 clones, often known as acid boxes, so I don’t really see this as controversial). I also have a Poly D, which is based on the Minimoog, but has an extra oscillator, paraphony, MIDI support, and a sequencer, and I wanted a taste of that without having to drop £5k on an instrument with, by contemporary standards, very limited capabilities.

There are a bunch of synthtubers I enjoy who seem to have a good opinion of their stuff: Wine & Synths springs immediately to mind.

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7oi 20 hours ago | parent [-]

1) Agreed. I’ve used Behringer gear that’s perfectly fine.

2) This is my biggest issue with Behringer. They do seem very questionable in the ethics department. To add on to what you mention, they also like to apply for trademark patents for existing trademarks, not to mention trying to trademark names of their critics in some weird smear campaigns (see the KIRN corksniffer debauchle as an example) and also litigate their critics when they don’t like what they say. On the cloning side, sure, clones of extinct hardware like the TB-303 I feel is fair game, but it is always questionable when the clone is competing with a product still in production. I mean, it doesn’t matter which market it is in, whether music gear or mobile phones or whatever: clones will always be perceived as lower quality imitations and morally questionable.

3) I agree. Budget brands do not always get fair credit.

4) Yeah, that he does. It’s not necessarily fair to equate the brand with it’s director/founder, but seeing as he is quite active and the brand name is his actual last name, it is kind of unavoidable. But I mean, you should be able to be an odd duck and also be a director of a brand, as long as you behaviour isn’t hurting anyone…

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bartread 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes! That was it. Your cork sniffer remark reminded me of something else, maybe part of that same situation: didn’t they put out some bizarre and derogatory cartoons/caricatures of one of their critics? Maybe 5 years ago or a bit more?

I don’t know if it was some sort of misguided “guerilla marketing” ploy but, regardless of the intent, it did come off as weird and unsavoury.

As far as rip offs go: their Arturia Keystep clone was, in my view, over the line. Their Mother32 clone, which I cannot remember the name of, isn’t something I’m entirely comfortable with either… although anyone who wants a Mother32 is I think going to spring the extra for the real deal rather than buying the clone.

OTOH I do like their 2600-a-likes and, as you’ve pointed out, I can’t really fault putting out remakes of out of production hardware.

	▲	wlonkly 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> bizarre and derogatory cartoons/caricatures One and the same. The illustration of the critic that the cork sniffer was mocking was at best unflattering, and at worst referenced antisemitic stereotypes. https://www.vice.com/en/article/a-major-synth-company-create...

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nkozyra 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> But I mean, you should be able to be an odd duck and also be a director of a brand, as long as you behaviour isn’t hurting anyone…

I think the canonical example here is the Kirn Corksniffer[1] which could have been avoided with some foresight and subsequently a quick apology, but ego can sometimes get in the way.

Behringer definitely made bad products for a very long time, and while I appreciate the increase in quality the synth recreations don't really blow my mind. They're low cost, they're hardware, but almost all of them fall short of the originals.

[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/a-major-synth-company-create...?

	▲	bartread 14 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> They're low cost, they're hardware, but almost all of them fall short of the originals. As with everything Behringer, a lot of this varies from product to product. And it also depends which axes you measure along and which you consider important. Like, for example, I don’t think anyone who’d done their research could seriously suggest the TD-3 and its variants aren’t as good as an original 303. In some ways they’re better: MIDI support, for example, and the MO - which is the second one I bought - implements the Devilfish mods that were popular on original units. But sound-wise, they’re as similar to a real 303 as the tonal differences between two original 303s. And hardware wise, well they’re cheap plastic boxes just like the originals so Behringer have certainly nailed the feel of using a 303. On the other hand, something like the Poly D, does have some differences to the Minimoog. Again, it has some stuff that the OG doesn’t: an additional oscillator, paraphony, MIDI, a sequencer and arpeggiator. Soundwise it’s very close but my sense is the filter doesn’t have quite the same hollow but fat character of the Moog filters I’m most familiar with (Moog One so not directly compatible). But it’s close and I’m not sure in a mix anyone would notice you were using a Poly D rather than a Minimoog. And then you can find areas where corners have been cut: knobs and switchgear of the Poly D are solid and satisfying to use, but the keyboard is absolutely meh. It’s functional but it feels (and is) cheap. Not a patch on the OG.