There are/were plenty of subsidies on EV cars in US/EU.

Also chinese companies innovate better and have more efficient supply chains that western ones.

The push to ban chinese automakers is stupid because it punishes customers at the benefit of automakers. Crony Capitalism at its worse.

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edm0nd 21 hours ago | parent [-]

>Also chinese companies innovate better and have more efficient supply chains that western ones.

Yeah because they just steal and copy everything from Western companies and others worldwide. Why spend hundreds of millions and 10 years doing R&D when you can just hack in and steal it? It's the Chinese way.

Chinese hackers took trillions in intellectual property from about 30 multinational companies

- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinese-hackers-took-trillions-...

The annual cost to the U.S. economy of counterfeit goods, pirated software, and theft of trade secrets is between $225 billion and $600 billion.

China is the world’s principal infringer of intellectual property, and it uses its laws and regulations to put foreign companies at a disadvantage and its own companies at an advantage.

- https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/china-exec-summary-risk-...

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_pr...

Salt Typhoon is an advanced persistent threat actor believed to be operated by China's Ministry of State Security (MSS) which has conducted high-profile cyber espionage campaigns, particularly against the United States.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Typhoon

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Aurora

Industrial espionage: How China sneaks out America's technology secrets

- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64206950

etc etc etc

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saxenaabhi 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes GM is lagging behind BYD not because it's leadership and managerial culture but because "chinese copy".

And the solution is to punish consumers and enrich GM's totally failed leadership and irrational shareholders by throttling competition chinese.

Here in europe cars have become so expensive compared to just 10y ago.

Some of it is because of stupid green policies, but most if because EU carmakers have been successful in reducing the competitive pressure from China by the use of tariffs on chinese firms.

	▲	benjiro 16 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> Here in europe cars have become so expensive compared to just 10y ago. Check the ownership of the different brands and you will discover from the dozens of brands in Europe, there are really only a few companies making cars. And the "mother company" then shares chassis between models, engines between models. So you can have a a Lada with a Renault engine, with a Dacia chassis. We see 3 brands, but in reality, its one brand. * Groupe Renault's owned brands include Renault, Dacia, Alpine, and Lada. But wait ... * Stellantis was formed from the 2021 merger of two major auto groups: PSA Group (which included Citroën and Peugeot) and FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles). Therefore, the brands Stellantis owns are now a part of Citroën's parent company, which include brands like Peugeot, Fiat, Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge, and Opel. You see the issue very fast. If you own many brands, do you compete against each other, or do you "stabilize prices for max profit". Same issue with other brands... Its like in the US, where if you trace back the brands, like 3 or 4 companies, own like 90% of the known US food brands. And when you have only a few companies, gentlemen's agreements about not competition too much are a thing. Hey, why are HDD not dropping in prices for the last 10+ years. Well, there are only 3 brands left (with two that are huge). Hey, why did SSD/NVME prices suddenly skyrocket. Well, only a few brands make the stuff, and when one decided to increase prices, all of a sudden the rest also followed. Strange is it not... We are in the age of monopolies again, and that is linked to a lot of the price issues.

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7952 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At this point IP seems to be less of a moat to competition than manufacturing ability. And that is what America and other western countries gave up on. It is easier to focus on branding and profit margins than the fine points of high volume production.

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ricardobeat 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even if that was true in the past, it has been many years since companies in China can actually do a better job at design than their western counterparts. And engineering, and manufacturing.

They also hired a ton of european designers for their house brands. They have no need to copy anything.

Yes, the west let this happen, and it’s too late to cry about it, action needs to start happening (and I don’t mean import barriers or a trade war) if we don’t want to be dependent.

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dmix 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe intellectual property is not something you should bet the company on then? The customers don't give a shit who made the original idea. We live in a global market, eventually you need to Realpolitik about things

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cycomanic 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Considering the documented history of the US government spying on and pressuring allied countries (just look up echolon) for their own economic gains, I always find it ironic how people are complaining about China. Shouldn't we base our trust on past behaviour? Has the US not proven to not be trustworthy.