So much of this, but not all, could be mitigated with a guaranteed battery "refurbishing" program. Large part of an EV's value is tied up in the battery, which is a (longer term) consumable. So when an EV hits the second hand market, and there is no battery guarantee (or clear and trusted state and history reporting), the estimates on battery value will have to be on the low side, and the overall car value depreciated accordingly.

Traditional gas cars also have wear and tear with parts on the "consumables" spectrum, but these are considered more open to state inspection by a semi knowledgeable amateur, and the car's value is less tied to one specific black-box item.

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bryanlarsen 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Initial studies show that EV batteries typically last longer than the car. Making a car 10% heavier so the battery can be replaceable will put a lot of strain on our roads, our grid and our wallet for little benefit.

https://www.p3-group.com/en/p3-updates/battery-aging-in-prac...

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Etheryte 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

An average mid-size EV weighs somewhere in the ballpark of 2000kg. Surely making the battery replaceable would not add 200kg, that claim makes no sense.

	▲	bryanlarsen a day ago \| parent [-]
		Tesla saved 10% by converting to a structural battery, and even before they did so their cars were considerably lighter than competitors.

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energy123 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

10% figure can be substantiated?

	▲	bryanlarsen a day ago \| parent [-]
		https://www.laserax.com/blog/structural-batteries

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wat10000 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are they not replaceable already? Older Teslas could literally change the battery in a few minutes. Newer ones aren’t quite so easy, but it’s a fairly quick matter of lifting up seat cushions, undoing some bolts and connectors, and connecting the new one. If your battery dies under warranty, they’re replacing the battery, not giving you a whole new car.

The issue isn’t that the batteries can’t be replaced, it’s that a new battery is quite expensive. Substantially more than a new motor for a typical ICE car.

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theideaofcoffee 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> 10% heavier so the battery can be replaceable will put a lot of strain on our roads

No it won't. Road wear scales as the fourth power [0] in relationship to axle load, so even a modest increase in weight is still hugely outweighed by the damage done by a fully-loaded semi tractor-trailer (80k lbs). Cars, even EVs, are negligible in terms of road wear.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

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bob1029 a day ago | parent [-]

The entire point of something scaling quartically is that even a "modest" increase is incredibly significant.

There are many road surfaces that semi trucks cannot drive on, even once. This comparison is really far out of reach. A better comparison would be to a Honda Civic or Ram 1500.

	▲	theideaofcoffee 20 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, I’m sure the original comment had unpaved surfaces, for example, in mind when they wrote that, and not heavily traveled corridors shared by all types, like I-5, or something like the stretch of I-95 between Philly and NYC, one of the busiest sections of roads in the US. Versus the situation with dirt and gravel. Such a huge percentage of highway miles driven in proportion on gravel and dirt, everyone going to work and back home on gravel, yep. EVs do cause more damage than most ICE by virtue of being heavier. But you know what causes even more damage? Heavy commercial vehicles. The overall proportion of damage is still vastly outweighed (heh) by a single heavy vehicle. Multiplied by thousands upon thousands of heavy semis day after day after day. The proportional amount is insignificant. Source: a pavement engineer in my circle. And I’d take issue with your point about surfaces that semis can’t drive on, even once. Which are those? Dirt mining and logging roads that one might immediately reach for? Those are traveled by loaded semis already. Worn paths in fields? Already driven by loaded grain trailers, but they’re only used a few times per year. Source for that: I grew up on farms during harvest time. Perhaps quaint covered wood bridges over creeks in the middle of nowhere? Oh, I know! Those rope bridges over rivers in Peru, I know I’m itching to drive my new Peterbilt over that. I don’t know why I waste my time refuting contrarian “nuh-uh!” comments that are posted just for the sake of being contrarian. It’s like the only thing posted here.

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general1465 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That could be done if manufacturers went with some "standard battery factor" like on PCs is 3,5" slot and you can put there HDD, SSD, or whatever fits.

Now you could just exchange battery as a module and replace NCA for Solid State in the future like HDD in the computer and car would be driving just fine.

	▲	kube-system 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		We're at the laserdisc part of the evolution of EVs. It's too early to standardize now, and besides, there are a lot of real performance advantages that can be gained from customizing battery packaging to the vehicle chassis.

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interstice 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I think modular and replaceable battery regulations are desperately needed. The sheer volume of waste from used ev batteries even through non battery issues like insurance write offs is likely to be staggering otherwise

	▲	thijson 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		That requires a standards body and government mandate. It might not happen for a while.