| ▲ | Animats 16 hours ago |
| It's about to get much worse. You can't vibe code without using a service from a big company, and obeying their rules. If Microsoft terminates your account, your programming career is over. |
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| ▲ | protocolture 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| >You can't vibe code without using a service from a big company, and obeying their rules. In abstract, probably true, but so vague to be useless. I can probably vibe code with qwen on debian. But are you then going to pivot from your microsoft example to like, my ISP? And if I point out I can move to an ISP with less than 5 staff, you will probably just move the goalposts further right? Might be better to let you establish your goalposts first hey. |
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| ▲ | kragen 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | What has your experience vibecoding with Qwen on Debian been like so far? What tooling and approaches have you found to work best? | | |
| ▲ | protocolture 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I use it on Windows, I am just loosely aware that I could run it on debian if I wished. I use 7b and its roughly as useful as GPT 3.5. I dont have any tools linked to it yet. | | |
| ▲ | kragen 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Does that mean "pretty useful" or "a total waste of time"? I never got much useful code out of GPT 3.5. |
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| ▲ | brazukadev 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm implementing an MCP client using Qwen3 4B and its tool call capabilities are impressive! I'm sure it will only improve and the 30B is probably already much better. | | |
| ▲ | kragen 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | What are you running it in, ollama? Did you have to install some additional software to enable it to call tools (also via MCP?) | | |
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| ▲ | 827a 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Eh, this I cannot abide with. There are dozens of hosted model providers, from the foundational providers (OpenAI, Anthropic, etc) to cloud re-hosting (Azure, GCP, AWS) to routing proxies (OpenRouter, Vercel, etc). There are huge open source models that are quite competitive (Qwen3-Coder). There are smaller open source models that can run on your laptop and easily help with function writing. There are walled garden, highly integrated tools (Claude Code, Codex) and there are plug-and-play bring your own API key or model tools (Charm Crush, etc). The ecosystem is vast, and every facet of it appears to be getting better. |
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| ▲ | jamesnorden 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Can't tell if this is a joke or not... |
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| ▲ | bigstrat2003 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > You can't vibe code without using a service from a big company, and obeying their rules. True, but that's also not exactly a good thing to be doing to begin with. |
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| ▲ | nixpulvis 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is one of my biggest problems with AI coding assistance. And how they will shape the development of less human friendly APIs and libraries over time. |
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| ▲ | sherburt3 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What if you just like do normal programming instead? |
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| ▲ | echelon 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | What if vibe coding becomes 20x faster than normal coding? Are you going to stay old school and write artisanal code? | | |
| ▲ | bigstrat2003 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It may surprise you to learn that some people actually like programming, so yes I will. If AI tools are 20x faster then I guess I'll have to use them to get paid, but I'll be damned if I start letting a computer do the fun part for me on personal projects. That said I'm not too worried. Vibe coding is currently slower due to how bad it is at writing software. In several years companies pouring billions into improving LLMs still haven't been able to make them not suck. That suggests to me that it's a fundamental limitation of the tech at present, and won't get better until another research breakthrough happens. | | |
| ▲ | echelon 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | We've had AI assisted coding for less than half a decade. The rapidity of development is astonishing. | | |
| ▲ | auggierose 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | These two statements can coexist. Yes, AI is amazing. And yes, it is not good enough yet to significantly speed up my work beyond research and writing tests. |
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| ▲ | jezek2 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Quantity was never an issue, quality is. | |
| ▲ | skydhash 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There's no silver bullet in software development. | | |
| ▲ | echelon 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Universal statements have a high burden of proof. People used to claim we'd never fly. Shortly after we started, we reached the moon. The entirety of the last 60 years of software may have been a low energy local optima. | | |
| ▲ | skydhash 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | The last 60 years of software gave us amazing projects, and if you go through their code, you'll see the same principles that is outlined in every good software engineering book: Good organization, hackish when needs be to resolve some accidental complexity, good comments,... Most of those things rely on having the right mindset/philosophy first, then having a good grasp about the domain and the technologies (programming languages, platforms, libraries,...). After that you need to start thinking about the tools you used to help you (editors, test runners, static analyzers, debuggers,...). Most LLM users put the latter above all others. Like using the agent precludes knowing about the domain, the technology, and the tooling. And what philosophy? Craftmanship? Sir, here it's all about YOLO. |
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| ▲ | toast0 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > If Microsoft terminates your account, your programming career is over. Why wouldn't you just get another account? |
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| ▲ | EvanAnderson 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Age verification laws in the US are chipping away at Internet anonymity. You might not be able to get another account because your legal identity might be required (and can be banned). | | |
| ▲ | kube-system 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | This isn’t just a US thing. Many countries require KYC for a lot of online accounts |
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| ▲ | themacguffinman 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | All major platforms have mechanisms to identify ban evasion. It's not so easy to create another account when, for example, they ask for a phone number. | | |
| ▲ | drnick1 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In the U.S. at least, it is trivial to buy a new SIM anonymously. But really, you should refuse to use any platform that requires a phone number in the first place. These companies make it implicitly very clear that they want to control you and extract every bit of information that they can from you. | |
| ▲ | TuxSH 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Slightly unrelated but GH's ToS clearly only permit one free account per person and I've heard they sometimes enforce this |
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| ▲ | unleaded 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| i'm guessing you've never seen r/LocalLLaMA? It's a miracle that open-weight LLMs are even a thing at all, let alone as good as they are (very). |
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| ▲ | janice1999 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | You need thousands of dollars of hardware to run a decent coding model with bearable tokens/s. | | |
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