| ▲ | ants_everywhere a day ago |
| This is because autistism advocacy groups misuse the word mask. It is supposed to refer to extra work you have to do playing a specific persona. E.g. at a party pretending to be a character from a movie or a book. And especially trying to force yourself to become that persona to fit in. A lot of people in the advocacy space use it to mean basic things like being well behaved or being nice to people. Everybody has to be well-behaved at work. Everybody has to consider the feelings of others etc. The idea of "wearing a mask" in the sense of being polite is older than the notion of masking in autism. For example, P. G. Wodehouse used it a few times in the 1920s to refer to the social expectations made on aristocratic families. E.g. from 1922: > I didn’t like the chap, but we Woosters can wear the mask. I beamed a bit. In this sense everyone masks. In fact they mask almost all the time from the time they get up until maybe the time they go to bad. Masking in autism originally referred to something different that was specific to autism. The way it's used now it essentially just means "it's harder for me to fit in." Which is true but doesn't tell you anything about autism from a psychological point of view beyond the obvious fact that it's harder for us to fit in. |
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| ▲ | xp84 a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| > people in the advocacy space use it to mean basic things like being well behaved or being nice to people Thank you for this comment. As a family member of a young AuDHD person I am continually battered by a combination of their behavior (which directly and un-ignorably degrades the experience of everyone around) and by various 'advocacy' ideas that use phrasing like that to not-so-subtly imply that it's actually our bad for daring to expect to "not be hit," or to not be forced to constantly base our whole lives on one person's preferences, etc. It's tough sometimes to figure out what's real, what's a fair expectation, what's something that can be learned/unlearned, and what's just inevitable. |
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| ▲ | ants_everywhere a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Some kids are just really wild by temperament and it shows up in their first year or two on the Earth. Short of breaking their spirit there's not much the parents can do to make them less wild. Parents have to try to find a way to let the kid be wild and feel good about being a temperamentally wild kid while also recognizing that there are limits and boundaries. A similar experience is perhaps owning a dog that needs to run around outside every day. But nothing in the autism or ADHD diagnoses says you can't learn social skills or that they shouldn't. Nor does it require anyone to endure abuse or physical attacks. Assuming you're not the parent (since you say the more generic "family member"), probably the best thing you can do is try to befriend this kid and learn a bit about what's like to be them. And try to find traits in yourself that help you see why they act one way or another. Another thing to keep in mind is that things you take for granted may be very distressing to this person. They may be able to hear noises or smell smells or taste flavors that you can't. The parents have a tough job because nobody wants their kid's preferences to dictate everything, but nobody wants to knowingly make their kid distressed when they can help it. That becomes a tough tradeoff when you have someone who is easily distressed by a world that isn't really designed with their brains in mind. This is where things like earplugs and sunglasses can help. It's a bit like being hungover all the time. If you reduce the sensory input everyone becomes less irritable and more even keel. | |
| ▲ | VHRanger a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Having had personal experience with this problem, there is actually a simple but difficult solution to your problem: Focus in the effect if the person's action on you, and set hard boundaries for yourself. Note that boundaries are in this specific form: "If you do X in Y situation, I will do Z" The consequence to the instigating person (the Z part) is important. The person you described likely has a deficit in empathy, so feedback on actions has to happen to modify behavior. Note that I'm not saying to hit back. Consequences are generally best when withdrawing something of value than adding something of negative value. For example: "If we're watching a movie and you are physically rowdy, you will have to leave the living room and entertain yourself in your room". Focua on how things affect you, and what actions you can take in response to boundary breaking behavior. Then be ruthlessly firm and consistent about it. | | |
| ▲ | ants_everywhere a day ago | parent [-] | | > The person you described likely has a deficit in empathy Sorry, but I have to correct this because it's a common misunderstanding. It's actually a name collision. People on the autism spectrum struggle with theory of mind, which is also called "cognitive empathy." We can have difficulty understanding the mental states and emotions of others. On they other hand, we're often higher than average on what's called "emotional empathy" or "affective empathy." Many autistic people get very distressed when others are unhappy or are suffering. For example, autistic folks are over-represented in the animal rights movements and other movements to reduce suffering. Somebody who lacks empathy in the everyday use of the word is someone who does not care if others are suffering. That is not a symptom of autism, and never has been going back to the start of research on the topic. | | |
| ▲ | xp84 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Thank you for your productive addition to this conversation! Hearing from adults who can better put into words what the autistic experience is like is so, so helpful to me. | |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | To add, newer ish research also posits the Double Empathy Problem [0], which (I think?) boils down to basic miscommunication / misunderstanding. However, it feels like it's often considered the autistic person's job to adjust and fit in. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_empathy_problem | |
| ▲ | VHRanger a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't disagree with you and I agree that the stereotype of autistic people as lacking empathy is harmful and generally untrue. HOWEVER - the person I was replying to was mentioning them being hurt by the behaviors, and that signals a lack of empathy from the individual doing thise actions. Even apart from behavioral disorders, there's comorbidities -- autism is comorbid with ADHD and ADHD is highly comorbid with a lot of conduct disorders and personality disorders. So it could be any of that. But my basic point is that for the person I'm replying to all of this complexity simplifies if you instead focus on the effect of the other person's behaviors on you. That's what you have control over. |
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| ▲ | drakonka a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've mentioned to relevant people a couple of times in the past that I generally feel like I am "acting" in most social situations. Like I have an idea as to who/how I need to be in that moment and act accordingly. I'm used to it and it's not really something very conscious in the moment, but if the event lasts a long time it gets kind of draining since you have parallel tracks going - reading the room, predicting what reaction someone expects at any time, issuing that reaction, etc. It's not that I don't enjoy the events, but I can "fill up" on interaction quickly and want to go home early to recharge. I figured that was just being an introvert. |
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| ▲ | treis a day ago | parent [-] | | That's more like social anxiety. | | |
| ▲ | drakonka 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Hmm I wouldn't say I feel anxious during this, nor nervous before social situations. People around me would say I'm overall a social and outgoing person. It's more just playing a certain part of yourself that is relevant for the situation. It can be tiring in large doses, but not anxiety-inducing. | | |
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| ▲ | jccalhoun a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm glad you posted. When I hear masking described like it is in this simulator:
"To keep your job and avoid conflict, you must "mask." Masking means hiding your natural habits and feelings, while imitating the social behaviors that coworkers expect.",
I always think, "isn't that just life?" If I didn't hide my natural habits I wouldn't be going to work at all. If I didn't hide my feelings I would yell at the person in the office next to me for listening to some webinar through their computer speakers and their door open. If I didn't imitate the social behaviors that coworkers expect I wouldn't wish the person I barely know happy birthday. |
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| ▲ | autumnstwilight 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I mean, the thing about autism is that your 'natural behaviours and feelings' can be things that others find deeply offputting, like hand-flapping or other strange repetitive movements or sounds, anxious skin-picking, avoiding eye contact etc. But not doing those things requires conscious effort, because they're natural to you. So it's kind of like going through social interactions with an itch that you're constantly aware of but can't scratch. Or perhaps for a neurotypical person, imagine that you're instead not allowed to make any facial expressions or change in your tone of voice and you have to constantly monitor yourself to make sure you're not doing what is, to you, a normal and unconscious reaction. Of course everyone has to modulate their tone of voice and expression to some degree, but with autistics the gap between how they'd behave 'naturally' and 'what is considered socially acceptable' can be a much bigger one to bridge. | |
| ▲ | tpmoney 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | An analogy I’ve heard that I like is that the difference is akin to the difference between the “act” you put on for work, and the “act” you would put on for a high stakes job interview. Both are “just” normal proper business behavior but one is much more exhausting and if you had to do that later every day, all day, that would be a huge drain on you. | |
| ▲ | zeroonetwothree 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It’s a bit different though. If you have autism you might not even want to wish your friend or family member happy birthday. Whereas for neurotypical I think they would normally enjoy doing that. Or you might not want to say hello or goodbye in the normal situations they are used. Or small talk. These are all things many neurotypical enjoy. | |
| ▲ | jonnycomputer 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes. |
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| ▲ | whatevertrevor a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah I like to think of it as active roleplaying instead of having to put in an effort. Most people have to put in some effort in social situations, heck I catch myself saying unproductive things to my partner if I slip completely into passive mode. |
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| ▲ | a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
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