Interesting to see this on the HN front page. On the subject of methane pyrolysis, it turns out if you look at the Gibbs free energy calculation, about half of the energy of methane combustion is released from the formation of water, and the other half from the formation of carbon dioxide. That suggests that if you can be efficient with conserving the heat of pyrolysis, you can make a methane power plant that starts with a pyrolysis step to separate out the carbon atoms in an oxygen-free environment, and then burn the remaining hydrogen to power the cycle, and the end result would be a zero-emissions natural gas power plant. It would require twice as much gas to run, but if you can find a good value-added use for the carbon, it could potentially still be cost effective.

This would probably be much more efficient than doing pyrolysis to extract the hydrogen for use in electricity generation somewhere else, because you don't lose the substantial stored heat energy in the process of cooling that hydrogen back down.

And I can't help but wonder if fossil fuel companies might suddenly start endorsing aggressive zero-emissions targets if there's a way for this to double the demand for their products, rather than eliminating it.

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georgecmu 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

On the subject of methane pyrolysis, it turns out if you look at the Gibbs free energy calculation, about half of the energy of methane combustion is released from the formation of water, and the other half from the formation of carbon dioxide.

About 70% of the energy is in hydrogen, 30% is in carbon. 1 GJ of methane weighs about 20 kg, 5 kg of which comprise hydrogen. At 142 MJ/kgH2 (higher heating value, which implies condensation of the produced water), 710 MJ out of that 1 GJ is due to hydrogen.

With a 60%-70% efficient hydrogen fuel cell, about 50% of the electricity generated from hydrogen from pyrolysis of methane would drive the process, and 50% could go into the grid.

	▲	jbay808 14 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You have to account for the energy required to break the bonds of the CH4, though. This means if you burn methane the usual way you get (CH4 + 2O2 --> CO2 + 2H2O + 803 kJ/mol); if you burn it with an ideal zero-emissions reaction, you get (CH4 + O2 --> C + 2H2O + 409 kJ/mol), or just a little more than half the energy from the same gas. Your accounting works if someone else does the pyrolysis for you and you're left with just the H2 and C at the end, but mine includes the energy consumed by the pyrolysis step that breaks the methane molecule (albeit neglecting any thermodynamic losses, which there will be several -- for example you need to recapture the heat carried away by the hot carbon atoms). On the other hand, you can hardly wish for a better feedstock for CVD diamond production...

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thinkcontext 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> hydrogen for use in electricity generation

Hydrogen is way more valuable for chemical production, especially fertilizer. That would be a way to use the excess heat you mention.