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pornel 16 hours ago

This is more nuanced in Rust's case.

Rust is trying to systemically improve safety and reliability of programs, so the degree to which it succeeds is Rust's problem.

OTOH we also have people interpreting it as if Rust was supposed to miraculously prevent all bugs, and they take any bug in any Rust program as a proof by contradiction that Rust doesn't work.

shikon7 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It might be a bit of bad publicity for those who want to rewrite as much as possible in Rust. While Rust is not to blame, it shows that just rewriting something in Rust doesn't magically make it better (as some Rust hype might suggest). Maybe Ubuntu was a bit too eager in adopting the Rust Coreutils, caring more about that hype than about stability.

b_e_n_t_o_n 15 hours ago | parent [-]

> Rust is not to blame

Isn't that an unfalsifiable statement until the coreutils get written in another language and can be compared?

mustache_kimono 15 hours ago | parent [-]

> Isn't that an unfalsifiable statement

Sounds pretty axiomatic: Rust is not to blame for someone else's choice to ship beta software?

carlmr 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>OTOH we also have people interpreting it as if Rust was supposed to miraculously prevent all bugs, and they take any bug in any Rust program as a proof by contradiction that Rust doesn't work.

Yeah, that's such a tired take. If anything this shows how good Rust's guarantees are. We had a bunch of non-experts rewrite a sizable number of tools that had 40 years of bugfixes applied. And Canonical just pulled the rewritten versions in all at once and there are mostly a few performance regressions on edge cases.

I find this such a great confirmation of the Rust language design. I've seen a few rewrites in my career, and it rarely goes this smoothly.

mustache_kimono 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Rust is trying to systemically improve safety and reliability of programs, so the degree to which it succeeds is Rust's problem.

GNU coreutils first shipped in what, the 1980s? It's so old that it would be very hard to find the first commit. Whereas uutils is still beta software which didn't ask to be representative of "Rust", at all. Moreover, GNU coreutils are still sometimes not compatible with their UNIX forebears. Even considering this first, more modest standard, it is ridiculous to hold this software to it, in particular.

collinfunk 14 hours ago | parent [-]

You would not be able to find the first commit. The repositories for Fileutils, Shellutils, and Texutils do not exist, at least anywhere that I can find. They were merged as Coreutils in 2003 in a CVS repository. A few years later, it was migrated to git.

If anyone has original Fileutils, Shellutils, or Textutils archives (released before the ones currently on GNU's ftp server), I would be interested in looking at them. I looked into this recently for a commit [1].

[1] https://www.mail-archive.com/coreutils@gnu.org/msg12529.html

hulitu 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> OTOH we also have people interpreting it as if Rust was supposed to miraculously prevent all bugs

That is the narative that rust fanboys promote. AFAIK rust could be usefull for a particular kind of bugs (memory safety). Rust programs can also have coding errors or other bugs.

carlmr 13 hours ago | parent [-]

>That is the narative that rust fanboys promote.

Strawmanning is not a good look.