Remix.run Logo
zahlman 17 hours ago

> Only among those that don't understand that, if this is a problem, then it is Canonical problem, not a Rust problem.

(This is hard to express in a careful way where I'm confident of not offending anyone. Please take me at my word that I'm not trying to take sides in this at all.)

The dominant narrative behind this pushback, as far as I can tell, is nothing to do with the Rust language itself (aside perhaps from a few fringe people who see the adoption of Rust as some kind of signal of non-programming-related politics, and who are counter-signaling). Rather, the opposition is to re-implementing "working" software (including in the sense that nobody seems to have noticed any memory-handling faults all this time) for the sake of seemingly nebulous benefits (like compiler-checked memory safety).

The Rust code will probably also be more maintainable by Rust developers than the C code currently is by C developers given the advantages of Rust's language design. (Unless it turns out that the C developers are just intrinsically better at programming and/or software engineering; I'm pretty skeptical of that.) But most long-time C users are probably not going to want to abandon their C expertise and learn Rust. And they seem to outnumber the new Rust developers by quite a bit, at least for now.

mustache_kimono 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Rather, the opposition is to re-implementing "working" software

I understand the argument, and its sounds good as far as most things go, but it misses an important fact: In OSS, you can and should find your own bliss. If you want to learn Rust, as I did, you can do it by reimplementing uutils' sort and ls, and fixing bugs in cp and mv, as I did. That was my bliss. OSS doesn't need to be useful to anyone. OSS can be a learning exercise or it can be simply for love of the game.

The fact that Canonical wants to ship it, right now, simply makes them a little silly. It doesn't say a thing about me, or Rust, or Rust culture.

zahlman 14 hours ago | parent [-]

> That was my bliss. OSS doesn't need to be useful to anyone.

If you can afford it, sure. Some would really prefer to at least be able to get some attention (and perhaps a paid job) this way.

mustache_kimono 13 hours ago | parent [-]

> Some would really prefer to at least be able to get some attention (and perhaps a paid job) this way.

Not that I agree, but people seem to be giving uutils lots of attention right now? A. HN front page vs. B. obscure JS framework? I'll take door "A"?

I had someone contact me for a job simply because my Rust personal project had lots of stars on Github. You really don't know what people will find interesting.

inejge 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The dominant narrative behind this pushback, as far as I can tell, is nothing to do with the Rust language itself (aside perhaps from a few fringe people who see the adoption of Rust as some kind of signal of non-programming-related politics, and who are counter-signaling).

Difficult to say with certainty, because it's easy to dress "political" resistance in respectable preference for stability. (Scare quotes because it's an amalgam in which politics is just a part.) Besides, TFA is Phoronix, whose commentariat is not known for subtlety on this topic.

Replacing coreutils is risky because of the decades of refinement/stagnation (depending on your viewpoint) which will inevitably produce snags when component utilities interact in ways unforeseen by tests -- as has happened here. But without risk there's no reward. Of course, what's the reward here is subject to debate. IMO the self-evident advantage of a rewrite is that it's prima facie evidence of interest in using the language, which is significant if there's a dearth of maintainers for the originals. (The very vocal traditionalists are usually not in a hurry to contribute.)

17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
knowitnone3 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

so why create Wayland when we had X? why create another linux distro when there are so many already? why create C if we already had assembly? why create new model cars every year? why architect new homes every year? What you are proposing is we stop making changes or progress.

zahlman 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't propose this; I explain the apparent reasons why others do.

bsder 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> so why create Wayland when we had X

Because X11 had a lot of issues that got papered over with half-baked extensions and weird interfaces to the kernel.

The problem is that Wayland didn't feel like doing the work to make fundamental things like screen sharing, IMEs, copy-paste, and pointer warping actually ... you know ... work.

The problem Wayland now has is that they're finally reaching something usable, but they took so long that the assumptions they made nearly 20 years ago are becoming as big a problem as the issues that were plaguing X11 when Wayland started. However, the sunk cost fallacy means that everybody going to keep pounding on Wayland rather than throwing it out and talking to graphics cards directly.

And client rendered decorations was always just a mind bogglingly stupid decision--but that's a Gnome problem rather than a Wayland issue.