The banks and service providers can ask for your digital ID, the employers can ask for your digital ID and when that becomes the standart you will have very hard time to have a life in UK without having all the permissions.

Most of EU and many other countries have something like that, at least you have a citizenship or resident number that they can check against to see what's your situation.

In UK though, everything is run over proof of address and it's quite annoying for new immigrants(legal or not) because its circular. You can't have anything that can be used as proof of address without having proof of address already. At some point you manage to break circle by first having something that doesn't require proof of address but it is serious enough to be accepted as one, i.e. I know people who were riding the tube without tapping in so that when they are caught the government will send them a letter about their fine and they can use the letter to open a bank account.

The Turkish version is both great, annoying and terrible.Great because you can do all your government stuff and some other stuff like see your full medical history, make an appointment etc or managing your service subscription(water, electricity, cable. GSM etc) from the government portal. Annoying because whatever you buy beyond groceries now they are asking for your ID number and all purchases are becoming a chore. Terrible because these systems are regularly hacked and all your private data is online for sale and some even run an API to access your govt stuff live.

It works fine to manage legal immigration, you give the immigrants the ID so the can have their subscriptions etc. Once they are no longer wanted you know where to find them and make providers cut them off. It doesn't work for illegal immigrants because since they can't register to anything they end up just asking a friend to start them a subscription or pay extra to have some employee start them a subscription that in the records look like its for the employee.

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rock_artist 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> In UK though, everything is run over proof of address and it's quite annoying for new immigrants(legal or not) because its circular.

The circular issue is quite similar to Spain. Where in order to obtain residency you need an address. But for being able to rent, most likely you’ll need a bank account and ideally a Spanish identification number. But for having a local bank account you need an address.

Similar to the above. This needs to be broken in order to get residency.

	▲	pjmlp 9 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		In Portugal it gets even worse, because many landlords still ask for a guarantor willing to take responsability over the rent. My experience in a few European countries was also circular, the only thing that helped was that I could use the work contract and a letter from HR to break the cycle, however this naturally only works when the job is already secure before coming into the country.
	▲	throw-the-towel 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Ditto for France, except that it's de facto illegal to rent a place without having a bank account.

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splix 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AFAIK the recommended way is to open a bank account through smaller banks (aka neobanks). They just send you a card to address specified and once you activated it you (first) get a bank account for payments and (second) can use it to prove address for others. Also, if you legally rent then you get the council tax documents, though it takes roughly a month for them to send. This is another proof of address. And the bills of course, but again it takes a month or so to receive the first letter.

So it's unclear how a digital ID solves anything in regarding the proof of address.

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cassianoleal 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The banks and service providers can ask for your digital ID, the employers can ask for your digital ID and when that becomes the standart you will have very hard time to have a life in UK without having all the permissions.

They already ask you for a "share code" which they then verify on the Home Office website. What does the Digital ID add to that?

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octo888 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Most of EU and many other countries have something like that

And no EU country has any illegal immigration thanks to the ID card

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wsc981 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

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mrtksn 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's just propaganda. It does matter if you are legal or not a lot. It's extremely hard for an illegal immigrant to have a life in EU.

Free housing is some shithole where you have to stay all the time until you are processed and that can take years, healthcare is something very basic if you get injured and welfare is some very basic food or money to buy food. Some countries with enough resources may provide something slightly better or use you as a method to transfer money to local businesses by putting you in a hotel room and giving you pocket change instead of running proper immigration camps.

If you think that its so great being immigrant burn you documentation and enjoy the experience. You understand that you can too claim that you lost your ID, right?

I don't understand why people are this gullible, its widespread to believe that its a lifehack to be an illegal immigrant. If you like it that much, just become one.

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curtisblaine 10 hours ago | parent [-]

But the "life hack", as far as I understand, is not living in Uk's govt temporary accommodation waiting for a decision, it's rather leaving your temporary accommodation without any way for the government to track you, then work illegal, cash in hand jobs, which are still more remunerative than what you had back home. In this case, seeking asylum is not the goal: it's just a loop-hole to not get deported immediately.

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mrtksn 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Everyone can do that if its that great.

Some years ago I met a Palestinian guy in who was staying in hostels in London, receiving something like 800GBP as aid and illegally working his ass off in constructions for something around the min wage. I've seen him only in the late evenings as he was working all the other times.

He was living the dream I guess. Hacked the life.

Anyway, I have him on Facebook and occasionally check on him and he eventually he became properly documented and the last time I checked he got into real estate business.

Immigrants are not life hacking, they are just trying to build a life on hard mode. The end game is to become legal, which is the the default state of the people who feel like they are the victim and immigrants are having it good.

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curtisblaine 9 hours ago | parent [-]

That is beside the point. The point is that they are using a loophole in the asylum process to stay illegally for more time than they're allowed. After they successfully do that, they of course have to work illegally (endangering themselves and others), they don't (can't) pay taxes, and they end up sending all the money they earned abroad. All attempts to close this loophole by various governments have been unfruitful, mainly because of strenuous left-wing opposition: Italian government tried to fingerprint them years ago (in order to make them more easily identifiable) but the law was killed. British government tried to move them in other (third world) countries during the asylum process (to make escaping their accommodation less appealing) but they couldn't do that. Now they're trying to shorten the asylum decision waiting window (which is ~1 year iirc), but that again is something that will be appealed to death.

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mrtksn 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Instantly fixable by letting people work legally.

	▲	curtisblaine 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Countries have a right of controlling immigration in their territory. Letting illegal immigrants stay and work essentially negates that right.

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scott_w 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Back up your claim or stop telling lies.

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carlosjobim 10 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

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mrtksn 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't think anyone denies the existence of immigrants. The disagreement is over the how good they are having it.

Can I see some of these pages please? Let's have a look at the life of an illegal immigrant and see how great it is

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carlosjobim 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Just pick a country and start digging. It's not difficult. You can easily find web pages from different government departments, detailing exactly which rights illegal immigrants have, for example when it comes to health care or accommodation. The government web pages usually have links and references to the exact laws which mandate this.

Illegal immigrants, as in people who have been denied asylum and ordered by the immigration authorities to leave the country. Yes, even those have right to many different benefits even though they refuse to leave the country.

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mrtksn 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Okay, I pick Sweden. Go on

	▲	carlosjobim 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Just because Sweden is so easy, I'll give you a little. Then try doing something yourself instead of being lazy. Here's the public healthcare which local regions by law have to provide to asylum seekers and to illegal aliens: https://www.socialstyrelsen.se/kunskapsstod-och-regler/omrad... As you can see, it is quite extensive. Including abortion and health care for child birth. And of course transports to hospitals and health clinics, and an interpreter. Here are some more regulations, detailing in which cases illegal aliens have the right to direct economic benefits from the public: https://skr.se/skr/integrationsocialomsorg/asylochflyktingmo... Notably, there is an "emergency situation" clause, which makes sure that even a person who has been expelled from the country and refuses to leave has a right to economic benefits.