> We're all greedy. We all want to get the most for our money, time and effort.

We are?

For example, I never file taxes. I'm certain I could get quite a bit back. I am far from rich, I earn medium pay in Germany - medium overall, not medium in IT. (Because I deliberately took a more rewarding and relaxing job, but that's besides the point.)

I will not fill my mind with "money" stuff. Even if that costs me some of that money.

I am sure, given that the terms used are as fuzzy as can be, you can twist and shake the words until you can claim that I am "greedy", the problem with this rationality discussions is how extremely flexible the words used are, making it quite impossible to win or lose an argument. All one has to do is insist on one's own definitions... but taking a relaxed view, I don't see good way to make not-at-all-rare positions such as mine as a form of "greed", without severely twisting the commonly understood meaning(s).

I think a lot of that world view is self-fulfilling.

When I was a kid I LOVED working like the adults. That includes taking one to four week stints in factories, as a teenager in school. That was common in East Germany and encouraged, early acquaintance with work life. I did the same helping out my craftsman grandfather and my shop-owing grandmother.

Work was FUN!

But now, the reason I don't just go - which I would LOVE to do! - and work a few hours low-level jobs here and there, is because it's all been heavily commercialized. You just don't do that! Work has to be pain, and you get paid. Only an idiot would work for free!

During university, during a semester break, I took a job in a chocolate factory. I did not actually need the money! My parents paid (divorced, but both paid). I actually had a lot over at the end of university (cheap dorm housing and no fees for the university itself sure helped). I took the job because I wanted to work in a factory again. It is FUN!.

Until that middle manager a..ole appüeared. I had just optimized my in-between assignment of taking care of some machine chocolate thing, some mixing, I forgot the details. I had set everything up perfectly and now had to just wait a few minutes for the machine to finish.

In comes that.... manager guy. Immediately, seeing me sitting there he yelled at me why I'm not working. FU manager guy. That was the day I realized work now is WORK, not fun. You are not supposed to have fun. You now need middle manager person to keep your lazy ass in check! By yourself, without continuous pressure, you would not move a hand! Right?

At least for the "lower" jobs, which are the majority.

> It's normal, it's natural and it works. It's human (and animal) nature.

You are definitely not speaking for a lot of people, and what you see is NOT the one natural outcome. Expectations and behavior towards people determine theirs (behavior).

The culture I describe existed all around me in East Germany. Yes we were waaayyy backwards with everything, but work culture was really good. I learned a technical profession in a large chemical factory before studying. Everybody worked, useful stuff too, all day. The ancient machinery in the crumbling buildings needed a lot of attention to keep them running. There was hardly any slacking off anywhere I looked. Sure, it was relaxed, but it was work, work, work. I've seen waayyy more slacking off in the offices of large American IT companies.

What you describe as "natural" is natural only in the context the current society has created.

> We are?

Yes we are. When discussing a salary offer, do you negotiate it down? When buying products and services, do you just pay the minimum amount asked or do you offer more from the goodness of your heart? When getting your paycheck do you immediately donate most of it to the less fortunate in Africa, keeping only enough to cover the bare necessities for yourself? If not, welcome to the club: you too are greedy.

> When I was a kid I LOVED working like the adults.

My kids loved helping with yard when they were little. Their reward was spending time with me and learning. It was enough then. Now, as teens, not so much. I have to pay to motivate them.

> Work was FUN!

Work is still fun, for me at least. But a paycheck makes it even better. I don't know anybody cleaning sewage for pure fun though.

> East Germany

I too grew up in communist Eastern Europe. I clearly remember the never ending lines for food and any basic items like soap or toilet paper. With the profit motivation made illegal, nobody did any work and we were all starving.