> In public, you have to support the policies, but when you’re in private with your manager and your peers, that’s the time you can safely push for change.

They are actually advocating being two-faced as a form of leadership.

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Spivak 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

1. You have to tow the company line as a line manager or else you'll be fired.

2. If you are a dead-eyed shill for the company your employees won't trust you and you'll be an ineffective manager.

Calling this work dynamic being two faced puts the wrong tone on the behavior. It's more akin to leading a resistance cell in under an authoritarian regime. When the people above you demand unwavering unquestioning loyalty it's the best you can do.

It becomes two-faced if you actually agree with the higher ups but pretend you don't to your employees. Everyone, including your employees, understands the need to "we love Great Leader, so intelligent and wise" in public and won't judge you for it.

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cyrnel 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I know, right? It's sycophancy.

If you are actually against the policy and suspect a lot of people are too, then don't silence your employees by keeping their feedback isolated to 1:1s which you admit are ineffective.

Executives need clear feedback to avoid making major mistakes.

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bluefirebrand 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think I've ever worked anywhere that executives are actually capable of taking feedback constructively

In all cases they have eventually just told me to shut up, no matter how diplomatic I try to be, and in some cases it has led to me being terminated

Feedback is just taken as a sign that you aren't aligned with their vision, so you have to go

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sensanaty 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Can't upvote this enough, and I live in NL where worker protections make it hard/impossible for them to fire me for stuff like this. I'm a very honest person, so I've never had issues speaking my mind to anyone because I also don't really believe in the whole hierarchy thing.

I have approached management with stats, hard facts and level headed, calm discussions many times. It doesn't make a difference. Execs do not give a shit, unless you're also an exec, and they will pretty much always ignore anything you have to say. If you don't align with whatever idea they have at that moment, you're "not being a team player"

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CSSer 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Everyone has an ego. Everyone wants to exercise their power their way when it's their time to shine. I wish I could upvote this twice. If you are reading the above early in your career, please don't take the comment as cynical. It doesn't have to be. Rather, look for it as the sign that you're ready to find your next role. Companies will never clearly give you that. This is often the closest heuristic you'll find, and if you take advantage of it with the right timing, you can leave with grace. If someone asks you why you're leaving, keep it to yourself.

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tao_oat 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

out of curiosity, what would it look like to take feedback constructively, but not follow it?

i'm asking because (in my experience) executives get hundreds of pieces of feedback and advice. they can't follow all of it, and so they have to prioritize, and their priorities might not overlap completely with those of ICs.

	▲	numeri 3 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		One sign would be occasionally changing course in response to overwhelming employee feedback. If that never or almost never happens, the feedback is being ignored, not taken constructively and not followed.
	▲	bluefirebrand 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> out of curiosity, what would it look like to take feedback constructively, but not follow it You need to have good reasons > their priorities might not overlap completely with those of ICs Then their ICs are fully reasonable to be pissed off If a company's desires doesn't align with the desires of the workers, then there is a big problem imo

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aesthethiccs 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

thought i was taking crazy pills when no one else but you two pointed out how ridiculous a manager with two faces is, if the execs don't get proper feedback they will never change, and employees complaining to this type of manager will immediately start looking elsewhere.