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bilekas 7 hours ago

These two in particular :

> Automatic Refunds for Cancellations

> Transparency of Fees

How does a lawmaker justify this being in the publics interest ? I'm not even joking, I know "well lobbyist going to lobby", but this is a legitimate question. How does a regulatory body say "Yup, that's okay with us to remove" ?

lxgr 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Playing devil's advocate for a moment: I could imagine airlines wanting to not allow for a full refund if passengers can be booked on a "reasonably similar" connection. (I've done this myself in the past, as far as I remember; changes of a few minutes in either direction often make an entire booking refundable.)

The problem here of course would be the definition of "reasonably similar". Arriving a few hours later can be entirely fine or completely ruin a trip, depending on the circumstances.

bilekas 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Okay, I can see some benefits to the airline that are not too egregious for point 1, maybe automatic can be updated to manual intervention. Not the worst.

But price transparency ?

> A4A opposes the U.S. Department of Transportation’s (DOT) rules requiring airlines to disclose ancillary fees upfront, arguing that these rules exceed the DOT’s authority and don’t provide any clear benefits to consumers.

> don’t provide any clear benefits to consumers

As a customer I like to know where my money is going and how much.

NoLinkToMe 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't follow the point. Suppose we live in a perfect world where exactly similar alternative flights are always available the moment yours gets cancelled. You still have to pay for it. And you do that by using the refund money.

Cancelling a flight without refunding it, just means profiting at the expense of the customer.

Businesses are able to insure their limited cost of cancellations, and price their tickets to absord these insurance costs (which are ultimately born by the ticket-payer).

Deregulating this point just puts all the risk and burden with millions of individual customers, some of whom cannot easily carry the cost of unexpected events, and aren't professional parties that can and routinely do enter into properly-negotiated insurance products to mitigate their risk.

> 've done this myself in the past, as far as I remember; changes of a few minutes in either direction often make an entire booking refundable.)

My understanding is that refunds eligibility starts at a >3 hour change, meaning an alternative timetable of 2 hours doesn't trigger an automatic refund right now. Further, even in the case of a significant change (>3h), the refund isn't automatic, it is only paid once the customer refuses an alternative booking or compensation. For international flights it's even 6 hours instead of 3.

> Arriving a few hours later can be entirely fine or completely ruin a trip, depending on the circumstances.

I do agree on this point, context really matters. And I think in theory it makes sense to offer price-differentation based on the context. i.e. if I am slow-travelling for 4 months, I'd be happy taking a 10% cheaper ticket (no-insurance), and have no recourse if there is an 8 hour delay.

Whereas earlier this month when travelling overseas for a wedding the day prior, I'd have paid a 10% extra fee to insure my travel time, to ensure I have recourse to travel with a limited (<2h) delay no matter what or be significantly compensated.

But that's still all theory, at some point differentiation on everything leads to complex and difficult decision making for customers. Fun in a Sim computer game, not so fun when booking a flight is a 20-step process with 200 pages of T&C that I have to assess against my personal situation.

0xffff2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> You still have to pay for it. And you do that by using the refund money.

You generally don't though? The airline will rebook you directly, even if the flight is on a different airline in my experience.

bilekas 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm mostly behind you with this, a great point that you make is the insurance.

> Businesses are able to insure their limited cost of cancellations, and price their tickets to absord these insurance costs (which are ultimately born by the ticket-payer).

Those insurance companies have requirements for paying out, in Europe for example a low fare airline Ryanair will offer you a refund if your flight is delayed 2/3 hours. You can choose to still take the flight though which, for some is acceptable. But that refund is by way of a request, it's not automatically processed. It works, for me personally, but I've been delayed for important things where it was only an hour, I would have loved to have been able to get s refund to book on another airline but I have to say, I wouldn't "expect" that.. which is why I can soften on their first point.

yibg 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Give me that choice (refund or rebook me) and let me choose. Problem is if the airlines don't have to give a refund I now no longer have a choice.

Tadpole9181 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Airlines caused automatic refunds by systematically screwing customers for a decade, doing every single thing in their power to avoid giving any refunds. This policy exists because they proved to everyone they can't be trusted.

tavavex 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It will be some variation of the well-treaded argument of "us making more money just so happens to be in the public interest". Companies have become experts at arguing this in many different ways. You can see some examples in the article. More competition, purely hypothetically lower prices, etc.

fzeroracer 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Dream: 'This will lower prices for consumers by reducing administrative overhead and allowing for people to select what protections and plans they want for their trip.'

Reality: Tickets all cost exactly the same (because no company is going to willingly take less money) except now you get to pay more for less benefits.

cosmicgadget 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Easy. "The public voted up and down the ballot for the platform that promised to gut regulations and consumer protection." Who is a single representative to deny the will of the people?

mrguyorama 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are you not able to observe the current administration? There's no need to "justify" anything being in the public's interest.

The admin is no longer counting how many people cannot afford food for crying out loud.

The public voted against their interest.

mushroomba 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

bilekas 7 hours ago | parent [-]

> First, realize that there is no such thing as the 'public interest'. The public is composed of different subdivisions of people, from everyone everywhere down to the individual.

I don't buy that at all, that's what regulations are for. There is no public interest in still having lead in our fuel [0], or arsenic in green wall paint [1]. To say regulations are not for public interest is to say why have any oversight of anything.

Should we say "well fuel companies can make fuel cheaper with lead so lets just remove those regulations.

[0] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/inside-20-year-c...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_green#:~:text=Because%20...

mushroomba 6 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]