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Rand Paul: FCC chair had "no business" intervening in ABC/Kimmel controversy(arstechnica.com)
120 points by voxadam 13 hours ago | 103 comments
Animats 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Kimmel will be back on the air next week.[1]

[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2025/09/22/j...

jonny_eh 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Tomorrow, September 23.

> Following a suspension of the show for host Jimmy Kimmel's comments about the death of Charlie Kirk, Disney says "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" will return to air on Tuesday, Sept 23.

anigbrowl 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Just in time for the Rapture - COINCIDENCE??!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Edit: apparently HN readers are unaware that there's a viral belief going around that the Rapture is happening between Tuesday and Wednesday of this week.

Jtsummers 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

RaptureTok, that was not a term I ever thought I'd read. I'll be playing D&D right in the middle of their predicted Rapture-window, guess I'll still be here on Thursday.

platevoltage 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I thought the Rapture was happening last night when I was shaken from a peaceful slumber by a 4.3 earthquake.

mothballed 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Streisand effect in full force. I had never heard of Kimmel nor Kirk until psychopaths tried to silence them.

reassess_blind 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You'd never heard of Jimmy Kimmel?

4ndrewl 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Outside the US - I'd not heard of either of them too.

reassess_blind 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm outside the US too. Kirk makes sense, he was fairly niche. But Kimmel I'm surprised about. Have you heard of Jimmy Fallon and Conan O'Brien?

4ndrewl 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Heard of one of them, not the other. Couldn't tell you what they are or do though.

grebc 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I forgot he was host of the man show back in the 2000’s - that is way more memorable for me than any talk show, even as a teenager with cable TV in Australia back then.

cindyllm 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

ahmeneeroe-v2 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The FCC exists (in part) to enforce a certain morality on public broadcasters. Whatever we think about that today, that was a core responsibility of the FCC when it started and that still exists today.

gwd 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'd be all for bringing back the Fairness Doctrine.

ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_doctrine

cjensen 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The Fairness Doctrine has become an urban legend among the left with a regrettable amount of built-up legends of its power.

Whatever you think it did, it almost certainly did not do that. In practice it meant that J. Random Crazypants would be allowed to give an editorial -- sometimes in the middle of the night, and sometimes as 60 second after the news. Additionally the Doctrine never applied to Cable TV for obvious First Amendment reasons.

smegger001 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

problem is who gets to decide that both sides are bing presented fairly? do you think that Fox Newsmax and OAN are going to be under the same pressure to give the liberal viewpoint as MSNBC and CNN will to show a righting viewpoint?

koolba 11 hours ago | parent [-]

> problem is who gets to decide that both sides are bing presented fairly?

There’s also more than two sides to an issue.

The supposed fairness doctrine was utter nonsense for many many reasons.

wakawaka28 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are a number of problems with the Fairness Doctrine in principle. The intent of it is that nobody monopolizes the then-scarce licensed broadcast stations. This is not a problem today, as TV and radio broadcast stations are abundant and also compete with the Internet and thousands of cable channels. A more reasonable attempt at such a law today might provide oversight on the licensure of individual TV and radio stations to ensure that new stations can be started up easily. I'm not convinced it is a real problem today except on PBS and NPR, which are taxpayer-funded and seemingly biased.

imiric 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The fairness doctrine was a good thing, but it existed in a different time. Bringing it back today wouldn't address the main issue which is the internet.

When everyone is given a loudspeaker, and the power to create an audience of millions; when "journalism" is equivalent to any random opinion; when anyone with the will and a negligible amount of resources can promote their agenda... No amount of oversight can bring back balanced discussion about actual facts. Reversing a post-truth society cannot happen without radical disruptions to the system that got us here in the first place.

ahmeneeroe-v2 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I agree with you but a broadcasting license isn't the same as "everyone given a loudspeaker". The FCC couldn't have done anything to a "Jimmy Kimmel Youtube".

esseph 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Very well said.

ahmeneeroe-v2 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes please

TacticalCoder 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

voxadam 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The FCC is barred by law from trying to prevent the broadcast of any point of view. The Communications Act prohibits the FCC from censoring broadcast material, in most cases, and from making any regulation that would interfere with freedom of speech. Expressions of views that do not involve a “clear and present danger of serious, substantive evil” come under the protection of the Constitution, which guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of the press and prevents suppression of these expressions by the FCC. According to an FCC opinion on this subject, “the public interest is best served by permitting free expression of views.” This principle ensures that the most diverse and opposing opinions will be expressed, even though some may be highly offensive.

Source: https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/the_fcc_and_freedom_...

"Last Reviewed: 12/30/19" (Trump's first term)

ahmeneeroe-v2 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Highly cherry-picked. The next paragraph says that FCC limits broadcast of indecent and profane material.

As I said, the FCC is allowed to enforce a certain morality. It seems clear that the morality being enforced would fall in line with the ruling power of the day.

voxadam 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

“We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.”

What part of that sentence qualifies as either indecent or profane?

platevoltage 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think that's what did it. It was the showing of Trump being asked about his "friend" Charlie Kirk being killed, for which his response was "They're building my ballroom. It's gonna be the best ballroom.

Trump has been trying to get Kimmel removed for a while for making fun of him. This was just an opportunity.

ahmeneeroe-v2 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I said that the FCC is allowed to enforce morality. The morality in question here is lying about someone being assassinated for their political views. The right sees Charlie Kirk as a political martyr (e.g. their MLK) and they don't want that taken away.

davorak 11 hours ago | parent [-]

> The morality in question here is lying about someone being assassinated for their political views.

Please quote Jimmy to clear up what you think the lie was.

ahmeneeroe-v2 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Charlie Kirk was assassinated for his political views. Stated differently: someone with an opposing political viewpoint killed Charlie in order to stop Charlie from promoting Charlie's politics.

Jimmy Kimmel said that Charlie Kirk was killed by someone with the same political views as Charlie.

That is the lie.

davorak 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Is there a quote from jimmy you can share and that I can reference?

ahmeneeroe-v2 5 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

suzdude 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You're lying about what Kimmel said, and you want to claim others are arguing in bad faith?

davorak 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I can not start to understand your position without a quote. It has to be something Jimmy said that lead to your beliefs, I know of no better place to start.

beej71 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Kimmel did not say that. You need to get the quote right.

duskwuff 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Obscenity, indecency, and profanity are narrowly defined by the FCC:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-pr...

Kimmel's performance was clearly not obscene or indecent - it did not depict or describe sexual conduct or excretory organs - and it aired after 10 PM, so whether it was profane is irrelevant.

ahmeneeroe-v2 10 hours ago | parent [-]

bad reading comprehension. here is what I said:

>As I said, the FCC is allowed to enforce a certain morality. It seems clear that the morality being enforced would fall in line with the ruling power of the day.

duskwuff 10 hours ago | parent [-]

And what you said was incorrect. Under 1A, the only content which the FCC can ban outright is obscenity, defined as per the document I linked; see FCC v. Pacifica for context.

11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
lokar 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why does this need to be a federal concern? Other than the need to manage spectrum assignments at state borders, why can’t the states do all of this?

Why do California and Mississippi have to follow the same standards?

drdec 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are plenty of locales where broadcasts cross state lines. I grew up in an area where we got Boston (Massachusetts) and Providence (Rhode Island) stations. NYC stations cover three states. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples (probably involving even more than three states).

So the justification for federal intervention (interstate commerce) is there.

Of course, that doesn't prevent the feds from letting the states handle it, but it does create an incentive for some states to want the feds to handle it.

lokar 11 hours ago | parent [-]

New England and a few big metros that straddle the boarder are issues, but even there the states involved could manage it together.

I think the New England states could manage this together fine.

I agree, the constitution grants the authority to the federal government to. But more and more, I think we should just let the states deal with as much as possible. It seems pretty clear we are far from a national consensus on many basic issues, and the constant winner take all grab for power is making things worse.

beej71 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Look up "border blasters" to see how that plays out internationally. We'd have the same problem in the states, I'd bet.

add-sub-mul-div 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And the Food and Drug Administration exists in part to supervise food safety but it can't use its power to shut down Olive Garden over a culture war. What are we doing here?

ru552 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

*Please note, I'm not in favor of censorship, it's just that this analogy is inaccurate

Olive Garden isn't given access to something it requires to operate at the pleasure of the government. Broadcast TV on the other hand...

All of broadcast TV is allowed because the government says it is. ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX don't own the radio spectrum they are operating on, the government does and they grant the right to use it to those companies. There's a long list of things that the government requires them to do in order to keep this pleasure. One of them used to be the Saturday morning cartoons. I miss those.

ahmeneeroe-v2 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

not a valid analogy

mrandish 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, but the FCC has existing procedures for communicating concerns and warnings to broadcasters about possible regulatory enforcement and an entire rule-making framework beyond that. The new FCC chair so directly addressing a specific incident off-the-cuff on a podcast and making threatening statements about FCC action against a specific broadcaster over a specific incident was extremely unusual and a troubling precedent. And, to be clear, I'd say the same thing if it were the Biden admin's FCC chair issuing semi-veiled threats against Fox News. We don't want federal agency chairs from either party using podcasts to conduct official business or as a conduit for plausibly deniable (but nonetheless real) specific threats.

As a separate matter, it's long been clear the FCC was created to serve a very time, context and needs - most of which either no longer exist or have changed substantially. Most media no longer travels through the limited shared resource of "airwaves". The agency's whole charter is in need of a major rethink.

ahmeneeroe-v2 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Information moves too fast and government moves too slow for me to buy into this "existing procedures and rule-making" line.

Your next point about the FCC needing a major rethink is interesting. What are you thinking here? FCC also regulates internet-based communications (e.g. Youtube or podcasts)?

lenerdenator 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How is Jimmy's speech immoral?

A list of words you can't say is about morality; it's a drag but at least it's objective. You either said the word or you didn't.

This is far more subjective.

ahmeneeroe-v2 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Jimmy's greatest sin was being unfunny and having terrible ratings.

His second greatest was lying about Charlie Kirk's assassin.

beej71 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Even if he did lie, that's absolutely protected speech and the FCC is out of line. Every Constitution-respecting American knows this and would be against the FCC saying anything no matter what party was in charge.

lenerdenator 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Okay, then the person he lied about can file a defamation suit. That still doesn't fall within the FCC's regulatory authority, so far as I can tell. They're not the arbiters of what is and isn't a lie; a judge or jury during the defamation trial is.

ahmeneeroe-v2 10 hours ago | parent [-]

The FCC is well enabled to make judgment calls. Yes a network can bring that judgement call in front of an actual judge in a court of law. That doesn't mean the FCC lacks the authority for such calls, only that the judge likely has higher authority.

lenerdenator 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Do you have an example of the FCC enforcing action against a television broadcaster or personality for saying something materially similar to what Kimmel said, at the same time slot and same genre of programming, on the basis that it was false and/or defamatory, without any sort of pre-existing court case related to the same?

ahmeneeroe-v2 4 hours ago | parent [-]

insane standard. how would you ever govern with that as your standard?

pupppet 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Look at you straight-up parroting Trump's comments.

ahmeneeroe-v2 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I assure you Trump did not invent "jimmy Kimmel isn't funny"

hamdingers 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Beautiful motte you've got there.

craftkiller 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> having terrible ratings.

Not true. His ratings have him right in the middle of the pack: https://latenighter.com/news/ratings/late-night-tv-ratings-q...

thunderfork 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

aeternum 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, sell the spectrum and get rid of the fairness doctrine. Few understand it.

nitwit005 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The problem is that Trump made it clear the issue was criticism of him. For democracy to function, saying negative things about politicians has to be possible. If criticizing a sitting president isn't safe, you couldn't even safely air a presidential debate.

gamblor956 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If that were true, then Trump would be banned from the airwaves, and Fox News and News Nation would have been shuttered years ago.

stretchwithme 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In a free market, the spectrum would be private property.

12 hours ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
ahmeneeroe-v2 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Tautology.

mindslight 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No, it wouldn't. The idea of spectrum allocation depends on government intervention. In a free market, transmitting radio waves would be a free for all.

platevoltage 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Every other year or so, Rand Paul pretends to actually be a libertarian.

ahmeneeroe-v2 10 hours ago | parent [-]

It's his worst trait

mensetmanusman 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

suzdude 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The chair of the FCC said:

>What people don’t understand is that the broadcasters … have a license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest. When we see stuff like this, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, on Kimmel, or there’s going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.

Do you really want to pretend that he is no applying pressure by threatening businesses who broadcast speech he doesn't like?

cvwright 12 hours ago | parent [-]

So you’re telling me that, in the past 10 years, this was the only speech on network TV that the Trump crowd didn’t like?

Kimmel got caught spreading blatant falsehood about who the shooter was. That has always been against the rules for public airwaves.

suzdude 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it

There's Mr. Kimmel's quote. Where did he lie? He never said what Mr. Robinson's political affiliations are or where.

tw04 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Did you have a sibling growing up? Did you ever have that sibling beat the crap out of you and tell you it'd be worse if you told mom about it?

The chair of the FCC literally threatened them in public. It doesn't matter if "ABC admitted they didn't get pressure" in some attempt to appease Trump. We all got to watch and hear it for ourselves.

blaufuchs 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“He gave an answer” is comically dishonest framing, so it doesn’t matter what that answer is at all? Nice deflection at the end there, almost convinced me.

nkrisc 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When you’re in a position of power, every word you utter has meaning and the weight of your authority behind it.

saubeidl 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Nice broadcast license you have there. Shame if anything happened to it"

Esophagus4 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

bongawonhav 11 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

suzdude 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He could have said, "No comment'.

But a Project 2025 co-author felt he wanted to illegally use his position in government to silence those who he disagreed with.

donatj 11 hours ago | parent [-]

> Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) slammed Federal Communications Commission Chairman Brendan Carr for policing speech

I don't understand what you're taking from this, and I'm guessing you didn't read it.

mlinsey 11 hours ago | parent [-]

GP was agreeing with Rand Paul. Paul was not a Project 2025 co-author, Brendan Carr was

mindslight 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So presumably Rand Paul supports impeachment and conviction, right? The Supreme Council has Decreed that the only possible check on this naked corruption is impeachment by Congress, so you either support impeachment or you're just grandstanding.

nickff 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If the FCC chair was the one engaged in wrong-doing (as Paul seems to believe), they would be the prime candidate for impeachment. In any case, it seems like Paul thinks that the previous administration was also engaging in censorship, and there were no impeachments in that case either, so perhaps he does not believe that censorship is a 'high crime or misdemeanor'.

xp84 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I think wherever you stand on the left vs. right spectrum, it's clear now that "High crimes and misdemeanors" is now de facto defined only as "stuff we don't like that the other party's guy did." Trump could openly commit treason and probably not even be impeached ny his party, let alone removed.

But I don't for a second believe that the Democratic Party would cooperate with "their" person being impeached now either, except if it was politically advantageous for them (for instance, to remove an unpopular Democrat for an embarrassing misstep when there was a popular VP ready to go). No way would they impeach for crimes of overstepping presidential authority to do something the President from The West Wing would be proud of, for instance.

mothballed 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The House has the sole power of bringing impeachment, Rand is in the Senate.

If he did the thing you ask, he would just be 'grandstanding' on something he has no vote to bring forward, which your statement would appear to damn him for.

anonymars 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This splits hairs. He can still support it, or not. And the message says "supports impeachment and conviction"

mothballed 12 hours ago | parent [-]

I find it odd to blame the impeachment situation on Rand when the ball is in the court of the House. You can have an opinion on something that other people have the control over, but it's not particularly damning if you don't spend your time doing so, given many constituents would probably prefer their senators spend their time on issues they can actually tackle in the senate.

>"supports impeachment and conviction"

As it stands now, Rand has no vote on any impeachment conviction and no ability to bring one, so I don't see the point in asterisking on the "and conviction" as it doesn't change the situation beyond shoehorning a connived reason in to blame Rand for not making a public statement on the non-existent impeachment.

mindslight 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's called building a consensus. Paul has a hell of a lot more input into the impeachment process than most everyone else in the country.

SilverElfin 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But they didn’t intervene. He made a statement indicating they’d look into it. Action from FCC would require the commissioners to vote. Not just a unilateral choice by the chair.

There is also some allowance for the FCC to regulate content under some circumstances, and it has been upheld as constitutional previously. Brendan Carr, the FCC chair, rejected doing anything about online content because it would be unconstitutional.

In spirit I don’t think government or large companies should be moderating or censoring speech. But Rand Paul should be focusing on the precedence of FCC being able to regulate things like “obscenity”.

willmarch 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

On these reported facts, this looks like unconstitutional government-induced censorship. A court applying Vullo, Backpage, and Bantam Books would likely view the official’s statements as coercive retaliation for protected speech.

stretchwithme 12 hours ago | parent [-]

You mean like FCC fining people over Janet Jackson's boob?

You have freedom of the press, when you own a press. But the spectrum is not owned by the licensees. There are rules. Limits.

I am not for government owning the spectrum. But that's the current situation.

willmarch 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Broadcast indecency rules (like those for a wardrobe malfunction) are a narrow exception and don’t authorize the government to punish political viewpoints; even on publicly licensed spectrum, officials can’t wield licensing power as a cudgel against disfavored speech, because the 1st Amendment forbids it.

12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
xnx 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Supreme Court decision in NRA v. Vullo (2024) states that a government actor can't threaten legal action unless content is removed by a social media platform (or a TV network in this case).

legitster 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The problem isn't limited to the FCC in this case. The FCC doesn't actually have to act - it could be someone in the SEC, it could be the DOJ, or (as we have learned) it can literally be about bags of cash.

The FCC chair's statement was a bit of an indirect threat ("Pity if someone looked into your affiliates licenses"). But the timing makes it clear they were at least aware of and complicit in the backroom dealings that led to the show being taken off the air.

potato3732842 12 hours ago | parent [-]

There's a different between making a threat and posing a threat. The reason we're having this discussion at all is because we've vested too much power in bureaucracies that have too much discretion in how they use it.

tw04 12 hours ago | parent [-]

No, the reason we're having this discussion is because the current Supreme Court doesn't seem to actually be interested in precedence or existing law, just saying yes to whatever whim Trump has this week.

Under any normally functioning government, the head of the FCC would never threaten a television station because it's both an obvious violation of the first amendment, and under literally any other administration would have resulted in immediate dismissal.

Sparkle-san 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He didn't intervene in the say way that a mobster doesn't make threats when he states "nice place you got here, be a shame if something were to happen to it."

b0sk 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's actually a word for it - jawboning

eesmith 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Did the FCC intervene in any sort of regulatory sense? No, that would be the "hard way", which didn't happen.

Did FCC chair Carr use the threat of regulatory power to intervene in internal business at ABC? Getting ABC to obey in advance sure seems like the implied "easy way."

Both fit the first definition of "intervene" at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/intervene - "To become involved in a situation, so as to alter or prevent an action"

anigbrowl 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Nice HN account. Be a shame if it were to be shadowbanned.

llllm 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Done