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BolexNOLA 8 hours ago

First paragraphs pretty clearly read to me like the issue isn’t “processing it,” it’s the indiscriminate filming of everybody who enters the store without consent that’s the problem.

nl 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Security filming is common in Australia and not outlawed by this ruling. It is specifically the non-discriminate use of facial recognition technology this ruling applies to.

The specific difference is "sensitive information". General filming with manual review isn't considered to be collecting privacy sensitive information. Automatic facial recognition is.

The blog post makes this point about how the law is applied:

> Is this a technology of convenience - is it being used only because it’s cheaper, or as an alternative to employing staff to do a particular role, and are there other less privacy-intrusive means that could be reasonably used?

https://www.oaic.gov.au/news/blog/is-there-a-place-for-facia...

omcnoe 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't really understand their reasoning behind the "technology of convenience" point.

Say I implement facial recognition anti-fraud via an army of super-recognizers sitting in an office, watching the camera feeds all day (collecting the sensitive information into their brains rather than into a computer system). It'd be more expensive and involve employing staff (both the "technology of convenience" criteria. From a consumer perspective the privacy impact is very similar, but somehow the privacy commissioner would interpret this differently?

Maybe that is the point the privacy commissioner is trying to make, that collecting this information through an automated computer system is fundamentally different than collecting this information through an analog/human system. But I'm not sure the line is really so clear...

83 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's a false equivalence to equate humans (even "super-recognizers") with a computer when it comes to matching large quantities of faces with names/PII.

At some point the numbers get big enough that you wouldn't be able to get the pictures of faces in front of the people who would recognize them fast enough.

onionisafruit 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don’t understand it either, but it’s just one thing she said she will consider. No idea how much of a factor it is.

llm_nerd 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Everyone who enters almost any store is "filmed" with their implicit consent. Cameras are everywhere, and certainly are everywhere in every Australian court as well.

The root comment is precisely right. Deriving data from filmed content -- the illusory private biometric data that we are leaving everywhere, constantly -- is what the purported transgression was.

BolexNOLA 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Very well could be that I am misreading it.

mrits 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is this from the 90s? Who doesn't expect to be recorded when entering a retail chain? How the hell does the government have the right to decide what this private company can do on their private land? If you enter onto someone else's property you should play by their rules.

nl 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In Australia we expect companies to follow the rule of law, which encodes the expectations of society.

The Australian Privacy Act falls well short of European standards, but it does encode some rights for people that businesses must abide by.

pc86 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And filming people who walk into a private store is not a violation of any Australian law.

mrits 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In the US we expect the government to respect private property

amanaplanacanal 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are obviously things you can't do on your private property though.

BolexNOLA 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Unfortunately often at the expense of virtually every consideration.

mrits 4 hours ago | parent [-]

hyperbolic

BolexNOLA 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Dismissive

IanCal 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> How the hell does the government have the right to decide what this private company can do on their private land?

Unless you think a grocery store should be allowed to grab you and sell your organs then you agree that this private organisation should be subject to some limitations about what it can do on its own land. The question is then where the line should be between its interests and the interests of those who go on the land.

You can be absolutist about this, that’s certainly a position, but it’s extremely far from mainstream.

mrits 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Grabbing and selling your organs is illegal. This isn't difficult to understand

IanCal 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Exactly. There is a limit to what a private company can do on private land, set by "the government" (here it'd be parliament). You don't seem to be an absolutist about this, so we both agree that the government can and should tell private businesses what they can do on private land. Then the issue is only where the line should be not whether there should be a line at all.

fwip 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree, it's simple to understand. Running biometric capture & analysis on every customer is also illegal in Australia.

BolexNOLA 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ease off the gas man

Ylpertnodi 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Who doesn't expect to be recorded when entering a retail chain?

Me. Unless it's clearly stated outside. It's why I wear a covid mask when shopping.

mx7zysuj4xew 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Wearing a mask alone isn't sufficient anymore.

At best it degrades overall recognition but doesn't fully prevent it

amanaplanacanal 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

People here might be interested in Zennioptical's ID Guard technology, if they wear glasses. Evidently it's not perfect, but it does at least partially work: https://youtu.be/HOBdJ6nU03o?si=E_a6rMPAz5AOwytm

nottorp 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Business opportunity: sell covid masks with patterns designed to thwart facial recognition on them.

Why are they covid masks anyway? Medical personnel wears them during surgery, and there were those photos of ... some asian people i think ... wearing them outdoors to protect themselves from air pollution in their city too.

pc86 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Because this person never knew they existed until covid and now wearing it has become a core part of their identity.

Eisenstein 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's why I wear Groucho glasses.

mrits 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

So to be clear, you wear a mask even though you don't expect to be recorded?

josefx 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> How the hell does the government have the right to decide

It generally owns more weapons than your average deluded shop owner.

CaptainOfCoit 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> How the hell does the government have the right to decide what this private company can do on their private land?

Because the world is bigger than just the wishes of private businesses. I don't think there is anywhere on this planet where you as a private business can do literally whatever you want, there are always regulations about what you can and cannot do. The first thing is usually "zoning" as one example, so regardless if you own the land, if it isn't zoned for industrial/commercial usage, then you cannot use it for industrial/commercial usage.

What libertarian utopia do you live in that would allow land owners to do whatever they want?

mrits 5 hours ago | parent [-]

We are talking about doing a lawful act, not whatever you want. It isn't illegal to record.

CaptainOfCoit 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The article is literally about that specific thing being illegal, which is exactly what parent is complaining about?

fwip 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The court didn't find that it was unlawful to record.