| ▲ | ryukoposting 3 days ago |
| This is very cool, I might actually get one to charge my laptop. That being said... I can't be the only person who consciously avoids fast-charging my phone. My whole apartment is full of wireless charging pads intentionally plugged into weak chargers (wireless charging avoids putting wear on the USB port). 60 watts can't possibly be healthy for a battery small enough to fit into a phone. |
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| ▲ | MobiusHorizons 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Wireless charging may avoid putting wear on the USB port, but it typically does negatively impact battery health due to higher heat while charging. I suppose with a sufficiently low power charger this may not be a factor, though. |
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| ▲ | Spooky23 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You aren’t, but that concern is mostly superstition. I work at a place with a huge phone fleet. We have interns study our telemetry and records because I kids like phones and they find ways to save us money. We allow for low friction replacements of phones at 12 months — the average replacement is ~27. The most common issues are cracked screens and excessive scratching on iPhone 16 and a Samsung I cannot recall. Batteries are only an issue for field devices subject to excessive cold or heat. Unless you’re trying to keep the thing going 5 years, you’re likely seeing marginal benefits. |
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| ▲ | jcgl 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > Unless you’re trying to keep the thing going 5 years, you’re likely seeing marginal benefits. Not GP, but yes: that’s exactly what I’m trying to do. I think that people should generally expect 5+ years out of their devices. And in a world where user-replaceable batteries are decreasingly common, it makes increasing sense to change habits to preserve the built-in battery. | |
| ▲ | xandrius 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What's wrong with expecting 5 years? Am I insane to expect an electronic device to last as much as possible? And if I had to come up with s number, I'd say 10 years at least. | | |
| ▲ | Spooky23 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Nothing is wrong with it. I’m an enthusiast for the tech - I care about the cameras in particular and they are still moving forward between generations on the top platforms. At work, the optimal cash flow is rapid replacement. We buy high volume so as long as I don’t use a lot of labor, we make money on the subsidy. I buy a phone for $1, and net $250 in trade in 18-20 months. 5-10 years means you want a wall phone. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s a contrarian position and the options on the market don’t support it well as a result. | | |
| ▲ | jcgl 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > 5-10 years means you want a wall phone. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s a contrarian position and the options on the market don’t support it well as a result. Actually no, that's not what it means at all. The phone I want a phone supports various smartphone features like GPS and NFC. It receives regular software and firmware updates, providing whatever new software functionality has been developed lately. It's built to last, without artificial barriers and compromises that prevent 5-10 of use. The market may not support it very well, especially when looking at the major handset manufacturers. If that makes me a contrarian, fine. But let's not pretend that the "market" (a space dominated by just a few vendors) is optimizing for long-term customer satisfaction or any such things, or that the absence of something in the marketplace means that that things is silly. I get that you're coming from a specific context, needing and wanting to turn hardware over quickly. But there are plenty of other people (who are generally quieter than tech enthusiasts) who don't have any such need or desire. A well-supported phone with enduring battery technology would be very welcome to me. The fact that the market doesn't meet our needs is reflective of the market-makers, not the would-be customers. | |
| ▲ | watersb 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It might make sense to turn over phones every two years if you are a business that maintains lots of phones. As an individual, I generally keep my phones for at least five years. Why should I spend $300 per year instead of $150 when the lower cost option works for me? (I'm typing this on a 2020 iPhone SE; it runs the latest software. Although this year, that's not necessarily a good thing. Liquid Glass, Safari bugs.) | |
| ▲ | vid 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | But you make sure to find homes for the replaced devices, right? And that future owner will appreciate longer battery life. |
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| ▲ | ryukoposting a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Unless you’re trying to keep the thing going 5 years, you’re likely seeing marginal benefits. My last phone went for 6 years, and the only reason I replaced it is because one of my banking apps dropped support for Android 8. |
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| ▲ | LorenDB 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Meanwhile me with a 100 W charger for my OnePlus 13... |
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| ▲ | Marsymars 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How do you manage that with magsafe/qi 2 chargers if you want to benefit from the greater efficiency and magnetic alignment? They’re all USB-C, and you can’t trivially buy USB-C chargers that are good for only 5W. |
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| ▲ | ryukoposting a day ago | parent | next [-] | | My phone doesn't support magnetic alignment, so I'm not really concerned with that. While I can't speak for other phones, my S24 has a setting that limits charging power to 10W, which is fine enough for me. I'd love a 5W limiter, though. The rest of the formula is a combination of Apple and Ikea. Stick to the name brand stuff, the horrors within the average 10-30W USB charger would make any electrical engineer cower in fear. I really like Ikea's cheaper Smahagel chargers, by the way. They have very good electrical separation, they're cheap, and only run at 5W. The way they're shaped makes it easier to cram a bunch of them into a power strip, which is nice. Can't speak for the USB-C Ikea chargers though. | |
| ▲ | runjake 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | We have a bunch that are USB-A to micro-USB to the charger? If you want to use the newer chargers, I’d think you’d want cooling and airflow. At some point, I want to build a MagSafe stand with a low RPM silent fan on it. | | |
| ▲ | Marsymars 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Well I want the newer chargers because they have better efficiency, but I still want them fanless and limited to 5W, which is why I ask. |
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| ▲ | kstrauser 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| My current thinking is that the phone shouldn’t negotiate a higher wattage than it wants. Hypothetically, you could bolt it to a 1000W charger, and if it only asks for 30W, that’s all it’ll get. |
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| ▲ | gruez 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The concern isn't that a 9000W charger will fry a phone expecting 30W, it's that charging at 30W subjects the phone/battery to more stress/wear than charging at 5W. | | |
| ▲ | Schnitz 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | What is the logic or science behind that claim? I’ve fast charged my iPhone 16 pro (heavy user) daily if not more often for a year using Apple chargers with the charge limit set to 80%. Remaining battery capacity is still 100%, which is something I’ve never had after a whole year. Fast charge doesn’t seem to hurt. | | |
| ▲ | ryukoposting a day ago | parent | next [-] | | My guess is that, from the factory, Apple's firmware doesn't actually charge the battery all the way up to its 4.2V "full" threshold. It's probably stopping at 4.12 Volts, or something like that. Then, that threshold will slowly rise over the years in order to keep perceived battery life consistent. Eventually, after several hundred (or maybe a couple thousand) cycles, the threshold stops rising at around 4.2 Volts, and that's when you'll start to see the "battery health" number start to decline. While I'm not an Apple engineer, I am an embedded systems engineer. I promise you, this kind of trickery is commonplace in consumer electronics. It's also far more common in expensive stuff (phones, laptops) than in cheap stuff (power banks, vapes). Cheap stuff could do this, it's not hard, but the people making those devices don't get paid enough to care. Point being: A lithium ion battery's capacity is reduced every time you charge it - sometimes by only a couple mAh, but still. This is intrinsic to the chemistry. Your phone is doing things behind the scenes to mitigate that wear, but wear still happens. If you intend to keep your phone beyond its designed 2-3 year lifespan, it behooves you to keep charging current down. | |
| ▲ | rr808 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Fast charge doesn’t seem to hurt. For me a year is nothing though, my phone is on its 4th year, my daughter has my old iphone X. | | |
| ▲ | Schnitz a day ago | parent [-] | | Yes but if after 1 year I’m at 100% battery health then isn’t it reasonable to assume that what I’m doing isn’t significantly harming my battery and I can continue like this for several more years? On previous iPhones where I didn’t use the 80% charge limit battery health dropped mostly linearly over the 3-5 years that I had the phone. |
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| ▲ | Eisenstein 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The logic is that is causes the battery to get hotter. |
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| ▲ | nenenejej 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | My device A55 has a fast charging yes/no option. I think that might help tame things? |
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| ▲ | teekert 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sure, but it’ll balance a fast charge with battery longevity. And you may not want any balance. You may just want longevity. |
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| ▲ | ezfe 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wireless charging is undoing all the gains of low charging speed because it's so much higher temp. |
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| ▲ | SirMaster 2 days ago | parent [-] | | My phone doesn't get hot at all with wireless charging using a low watt power source though. Also I am using magsafe which due to the magnet alignment leads to a high efficiency transfer at least. |
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| ▲ | SomaticPirate 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I believe current battery technology is optimized for fast charging. You are incurring damage every time your battery goes below 20% or exceeds 80% (see current EV charging recommendations). Even LinusTechTips did a video that showed the length of charging doing more damage than fast charging. For the concern about thermal damage, most phones will throttle their charge if they become too warm. Personally, I feel my wireless charger in the car does the most damage. It generates more heat and holds the battery in a charging state for longer |
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| ▲ | arvinsim 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree. I started using wireless charging with my iPhone 15 Pro Max. After a year of use, I am already near the 80% max capacity. My previous phones never even got below 90% in their lifetime. | | |
| ▲ | jwr 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you using high-power wireless charging? Does your phone heat up significantly? As a counterpoint, I've been using low-power wireless charging (5W adapters) with my phones for the last several years (three phones at least). The battery degradation was minimal, I was able to pass my phone to my kid after 3 years of use with near perfect battery. The key here is to prevent heat buildup. | | | |
| ▲ | CraigJPerry 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Same phone 89% on 535 cycle count, manufactured july 2023, first used september 2023. Almost exclusively wirelessly charged every time. |
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| ▲ | red369 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thanks for bringing up that LinusTechsTips video - I'll try and track it down. I would not have expected that conclusion. I've already said in another comment on this thread that I'd expect the opposite! | | |
| ▲ | red369 a day ago | parent [-] | | This seems like the video that the GP post was referring to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF2O4l1JprI Linus is surprised that fast charging does not heat the battery as much as expected. I interpreted that "length of charging doing more damage than fast charging" meant that slow charging was worse, because the battery spends more time charging, but I don't think this is stated in the video. In the video, Linus confirms that it is the high state of charge that does the damage and that trying to keep the state of charge as close to 50ish % is best. The conclusion that fast charging is better for the battery, is because you are more likely to do it when awake, and can stop the charging once it reaches whatever percentage you require (but the damage really starts to increase above 80%. |
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| ▲ | amelius 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| If it doesn't get hot you're good, I would say. |