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jerlam 12 hours ago

In contrast, Turkey shot down a Russian aircraft that had violated its airspace for seventeen seconds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shoo...

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JumpCrisscross 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I genuinely don’t get why air defences aren’t being engaged. At Estonian and Polish really still open?

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wmf 9 hours ago | parent [-]

If Russia is the first to fire a shot it will be easier to make the case that they're the bad guys.

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JumpCrisscross 8 hours ago | parent [-]

> If Russia is the first to fire a shot it will be easier to make the case that they're the bad guys

Sorry, if the country invading another European country while invading others' airspaces isn't clearly the bad guy to someone, the order of fire isn't going to matter.

Putin responds to force. Allowing these intrusions without consequence invites further provocation. Putin will bitch and moan about a downed fighter. But he'll also stop lobbing them across.

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drysine 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"Putin will bitch and moan about a downed fighter. But he'll also stop lobbing them across."

Such was the thinking that accompanied NATO expansion - Russians would bitch and moan but wouldn't do anything. Look how that worked out.

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w0de0 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

It’s worked out in as much as no NATO country in the east has been yet as tacked - despite all of them being smaller prey than Ukraine.

(I find it difficult to believe that Russia wouldn’t have embarked on an expansionist project if NATO had just kept out of its traditional sphere of influence after the fall of the USSR. Russia would still have rebounded from the vicious 90s with a desire for near-abroad dominance - and would have found many more avenues of advance.)

	▲	drysine 2 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		"I find it difficult to believe that Russia wouldn’t have embarked on an expansionist project" Why?