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boriskourt 3 days ago

Jennifer Lynch is very active on Reddit and explained why it’s selling for anyone interested. [0]

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/davidlynch/comments/1nhb6q9/comment...

bombcar 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Hopefully something like the Getty can scrounge up $15m from the couch cushions. Would be a nice museum of some sort.

irjustin 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thanks it was a nice read.

keyle 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Great read, thank you!

qmr 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

JeremyNT 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

She does explicitly go on to say "by Hollywood standards"

I honestly saw it was $15million and figured that's a bargain for the estate of one of the most esteemed directors of his generation. Relative to his level of fame and respect, his monetary assets do seem low.

But then this certainly matches the public perception of Lynch. He made the things that he wanted to make, not the things that were guaranteed to sell. I'm sure commercial success was important to him, but there were lots of paths he could have taken that would have lead to a lot more.

e40 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What people normally mean by wealth is easy access to cash. Someone that owns a $15M house and has very little other liquid assets is not poor, but they definitely don't qualify as wealthy.

Many, many people in CA that live in expensive homes are in this situation. It's what Prop 13 wrought. Variously, in my neighborhood, old people are paying a small fraction of the property tax that I do, and their house is worth a lot of money, but they have almost nothing, living on their social security check, month to month.

I'm not saying Lynch was living on SSI, but given his movies and what we know of how much they made, the story told by his daughter is very plausible.

cjrp 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Someone that owns a $15M house and has very little other liquid assets is not poor, but they definitely don't qualify as wealthy.

Assuming they own the house outright, that absolutely does qualify as wealthy.

e40 2 days ago | parent [-]

I didn't say it wouldn't. I said it didn't qualify as ready cash.

JadeNB 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> > Assuming they own the house outright, that absolutely does qualify as wealthy.

> I didn't say it wouldn't. I said it didn't qualify as ready cash.

I think you did say it didn't qualify as wealthy (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45301176):

> What people normally mean by wealth is easy access to cash. Someone that owns a $15M house and has very little other liquid assets is not poor, but they definitely don't qualify as wealthy.

Anyway, whatever it is, I think litigating Lynch's level of wealth on HN is probably not the most useful direction for this comment thread.

WalterBright 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You can borrow against the house, and spend the cash.

supportengineer 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Wealthy people don't spend their own cash.

WalterBright 2 days ago | parent [-]

Wealthy people do not hoard cash, unlike what many people imagine. Their money is all invested. They also borrow money to invest.

Anyone who gets a mortgage on a house is also investing other peoples' money. Using a credit card is spending other peoples' money. Buying a car on time is spending other peoples' money.

yndoendo 2 days ago | parent [-]

Let say you are given 1 million dollars. You decided to buy a new home. Do you pay in cash or get a mortgage?

When I ask people this question most will respond with pay in cash so you don't lose money paying a mortgage. The real answer it exploit loop holes in the laws with your gain financial position.

1) Open a trust with the money. 2) Use that trust for banking and make it your mortgage lender. 3) Gain tax deductions for having a mortgage and put tax dollars in your own pocket just by shifting money around in a legal creative accounting method.

The wealthy use loop holes that can be exploited only with money to maximize the hoarding.

How does one accumulate wealth with hoarding it?

WalterBright 2 days ago | parent [-]

Loaning money out is not hoarding it. You also still paid out the money to the seller.

> The wealthy use loop holes that can be exploited only with money to maximize the hoarding.

You'll have to be more specific about that. Most deductions and credits phase out with increasing income.

yndoendo 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Loaning money out is not hoarding it. You also still paid out the money to the seller.

You do realize that the rich loan out to themselves via shell corporations or trusts. The only mobility of money is putting tax dollars into the wealth hands.

Just because a wealth person bought it does not mean someone else wouldn't.

The wealthy can also use their buying power to reduce the value of the sale and harm the seller. Kroger has around 40% market share to throw their weight around a reduce the selling power of the farmer and increase cost to the consumer. So the farmer makes less all because of threat to not buy from in a market that keeps having less and less competition.

Have you had to give free labor in millions of dollars so your company could gain access to one of the big name companies on Wall-street. I have and it just highlight the inequality in wealth at a personal and corporate level.

Even Steve Jobs used his wealth of Apple to buy up companies cheap at discounted rates. I cannot find a the video any more but it talks about how a company was being bought by Apple. Steve Jobs, at the meeting, asked the company's CEO why am I buying your company for $XXX,XXX. I think it should only cost $50,000 less. CEO said there is an agreement again. Jobs, I could just not buy it.

How about the art scam loop hole.

1) Pay an artist $1000 to create a piece via trust or another organization you own. 2) Sell the at auction and buy it for yourself for $30,000. 3) Donate the art work to charity. 4) Turn a $1000 into a $30,000 tax deductible with more creative accounting.

This is not the only artwork scam. [1]

There are loop holes that wealth people pay lawyers, accounts, full time staff to do full time as a job. Exploit the laws for personal gain to hoard wealth. [0] Panama Papers even had their methods leaked and the names of their shell companies.

Another great use of a shell company is the ability remove liability from the wealth onto a corporate entity that can easily dissolve in bankruptcy and shed the liability. Laws often are designed to ease the burden of liability from companies while keeping on individuals.

Again how do you gain wealth with out hording it? Are stocks wealth, is property wealth, are bonds wealth?

Let say you own 40% of an industry and work to gain 70%. Have you not increased your industrial hoarding by 30%? Even though it is an investment it is till hoarding.

How about stocks, can you hoard those to consolidate and hoard wealth?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers [1] https://naturalist.gallery/blogs/journal/understanding-the-f...

WalterBright 2 days ago | parent [-]

It seems you're changing the subject. How do you buy yourself a mansion without paying for it?

> Even Steve Jobs used his wealth of Apple to buy up companies cheap at discounted rates.

Meaning there was someone willing to sell it to him.

> Exploit the laws for personal gain to hoard wealth

They're still not hoarding wealth, they're investing it.

yndoendo 2 days ago | parent [-]

Steve Jobs threaten his business by denying the ability to use their platform if he didn't sell. Even if he didn't sell there would be no business to sell being de-plaformed.

There are trillions of dollar hidden by the wealth to prevent paying taxes / their fair share.

There are no good wealthy people in the world because they hoard not share.

Investing means you must hoard. Keep owing an product or service that has a limit resource is hoarding. Want to invest in housing, one must hoard house to make a profit.

WalterBright a day ago | parent [-]

> one must hoard house to make a profit.

You must sell a house to make a profit.

yndoendo 11 hours ago | parent [-]

>You must sell a house to make a profit.

Renting and leasing economics prove your statement to be a fallacy. Airbnb wealth is built on not selling houses. Retaining bought houses increases the value because it increases the rarity. By restricting home ownership the rental properties monthly prices can be increased to reflect a manufactured market.

De Beers is a great example of how hoarding wealth grows wealth. [0] They hoard diamonds to create an artificial rarity market. This gives the ability to increase prices. Say you have a type of diamond category with 10% natural occurrence. You hoard 90% and only release 0.5% or less of that category. You just increase the rarity artificially and drove that category in price like a rocket. Even if your competition will increase prices to match or be just a few dollars below. Competition has to because they do not have access to the diamonds hoarded by De Beers.

How would you take that 90% of the hoarded 90% category diamond and make it profitable instead of just sitting on the selves? How about grinding some of the them up and selling them for diamond edge saws and bits?

My definition of _Wealthy_ encompasses individuals (you, me, human HN users) and groups of individuals (trust, companies, Apple, Meta, HN, ...).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers

boriskourt 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He was not a poor man, he was not a wealthy man. This project did take 40 years. Which is a great deal of his career and income, there is another nice comment from Jen about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/davidlynch/comments/1nhcgej/comment...

tasuki 3 days ago | parent [-]

By that definition, most people are poor. $15 million is much more than most people have. Even split among the four children, it's fine.

j-krieger 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

He apparently was cash poor and asset rich. Now the opposite is true for his children.

WalterBright 2 days ago | parent [-]

Assets can be easily converted into cash by borrowing against them.

tikhonj 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure, but there's a gap between being poor and being wealthy. $15 million is a lot more than most people have and it's certainly enough to be comfortable and not have to worry about money, but it's still categorically different from having the sort of money that gives you institutional power.

saberience 3 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah but having a 15M house and say 200k income makes you poor, as a 15M house needs a ton of money to maintain it.

giobox 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

If you are paying property tax in LA based on a 15m valuation, that 200k income will struggle to cover the annual property tax bill let alone any maintenance or anything else.

clpm4j 2 days ago | parent [-]

The property tax is calculated based on the last transaction price of the home, so despite it being estimated at $15m today, the owner would be paying tax on a much lower value (assuming they purchased it many years ago).

supportengineer 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The rule of thumb for upkeep of houses, airplanes, and cars is about 1% annually.

vkou 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Ill trade 5M cash and 200k income for that any day of the week.

The first thing I'd do is sell.

comfysocks 2 days ago | parent [-]

>>The first thing I'd do is sell

Me too. And it looks like that’s what the heirs are doing too.

But for David Lynch, I can see why he might want to live amongst the people involved in financing, making, and distributing movies. Similar to how founders move to the expensive Bay area to be near VCs, talent, etc.

bombcar 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s not terribly hard to get into that position, if you spend 40 years of your time and treasure on something with resale value instead of on food and experiences.

You can do something similar if you buy a house and keep buying any neighboring house that comes up for sale (and renting them out, perhaps).

vel0city 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Median household income is like $83k. If you were in a median US household and you saved half of all your income every month into something that had a stable 4% return, in 40 years you'd have ~$4M. Not even halfway there.

You'd need a little over 9% of stable returns over that 40 year timeframe to hit that $15M target.

WalterBright 2 days ago | parent [-]

The S&P 500 returns average 7% in real dollars (not inflated dollars).

My calculation makes that about $9m over 40 years.

softwreoutthere 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> It’s not terribly hard

Uhm, it must be, or more people would do it

bombcar 2 days ago | parent [-]

Losing weight isn’t terribly hard but still lots have trouble doing it.

echelon_musk 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There doesn't seem to be much compound interest.

comfysocks 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I guess compounds can be a hard sell. I read that Michael Jordan had a hard time selling his.

layer8 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Reluctant upvote.

dfxm12 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you read the whole comment, you'll understand the context better.

ode 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> not a wealthy man by Hollywood standards

rectang 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

It’s funny, but as someone who’s worked in music production, when you say that what comes to my mind is that the vast majority of people in the entertainment industry are nowhere near as wealthy as David Lynch. “Hollywood standards” to me is several struggling actors sharing a flat.

steveBK123 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's like the Bill Murray quote though - I always want to say to people who want to be rich and famous: 'try being rich first'. See if that doesn't cover most of it.

The entertainment industry is filled with a lot of more-famous-than-rich people. By these numbers David Lynch (at 78) was probably as wealthy as 1000s of random (and anonymous) successful Mag7 SWEs are at retirement.

WalterBright 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Lots of people who are paid well are not at all wealthy, because they spend nearly all their income, and sometimes forget to pay taxes.

See Will Smith.

rectang 2 days ago | parent [-]

I'm skeptical that entertainment industry workers are thousands of times more irresponsible that their peers in other industries. (Those who consume a lot of political media demonizing the "liberal Hollywood elite" may disagree.)

Care to speculate on how many struggling actors sharing flats are fallen celebrities?

The Will Smiths of Hollywood are a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction.

The phenomenon at play in “Hollywood standards” poorly reflecting the totality of the Hollywood population are winner-take-all income/attention distribution and cultivation of an illusion of opulence to satisfy audience demand — not licentiousness and depravity amongst entertainment industry personnel.

WalterBright 2 days ago | parent [-]

I have no idea how many there are. But there is an ESPN documentary, I forgot the title, about suddenly rich pro football players who quickly go bankrupt. They spend the money on parties, cars, lavish gifts, and suddenly the money is gone. Then they age or injure out of the game, and spend the rest of their lives in regretful poverty.

Why would suddenly famous actors be any more savvy?

See the documentary "Val" on Val Kilmer.

rectang 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Why would suddenly famous actors be any more savvy?

Despite what Hollywood would have you believe, Hollywood is not exclusively populated with rich and famous celebrities.

supportengineer 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Somewhere there is a mere single-digit billionaire who feels poor next to the double-digit and triple-digit billionaires.

DetroitThrow 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, I don't think she was saying he was destitute, just that he was effectively house poor for someone who supposedly had a net worth of millions.