> If the subject matter isn’t something the kid has a natural aptitude or interest in, and it’s not practical, and it’s not being taught in an unusually captivating way, why wouldn’t kids push back?

Agreed.

> I think adults should be able to justify why we’re using what boils down to the threat of force (if we’re honest) to make them sit in classrooms and listen to us.

Disagree. The justification for why they should learn $FOO may never be understood by a mind that we are teaching $FOO to.

There's good justification for learning to read, but not one that would be understood by a 6 year old.

There's similarly good justification for teaching Maths, but you'd be hard pressed to convince a 16 year old of the value in practicing abstract reasoning, using Maths as the vehicle.

Sometimes, the only good answer to give a kid is "you'll see the value when you're older".

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vkazanov 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

As parents do, I had numerous discussions with my kid about math and additional languages. Here's my usual explanation: it's existing knowledge that opens doors, not theoretical one, and you want to have as many doors open as possible.

Well, I use other words bit that's my message anyway :-)

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a96 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And the problem with that answer is that it doesn't lead to engagement or interest and that means it doesn't lead to learning. It's a bad answer.

I also disagree that there needs to be justification. I don't think students' minds work like that. What's needed is something different and probably many kinds of something different since there's many kinds of learners.

So far, a huge percentage of students are getting left behind when teachers and material fail to have a good answer.

	▲	lelanthran 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		> And the problem with that answer is that it doesn't lead to engagement or interest and that means it doesn't lead to learning. It's a bad answer. With an insufficiently developed brain, there is no answer that leads to engagement or interest. Sometimes you'll find yourself telling kids "How do you know you won't like it unless you try it?" If you, personally, claim to have never told a kid that specific sentence (regardless of context), I have serious doubts that you actually have kids. Sometimes engagement and interest only come after the kid has been forced through a little bit of it. They are children; you can't always reason with them because they have not yet developed sufficient reasoning skills. Making the claim that reasoning is all you need to get children to do the right thing is plain nonsense. > I also disagree that there needs to be justification. Sounds like we're in agreement, after all? I also don't think there needs to be a justification for "You need to learn Maths". This is why I said an answer along the lines of "you'll understand why later" is all you can do when asked for a justification.

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bonoboTP 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

If you ask adults about their school experiences, they very often say that it was a waste and they remember nothing and just remember hating math and that they never use any of that. And that we should teach about finance like loans, mortgages, bureaucracy, jobs, contracts, warranty rights, how to buy a house, how to buy a car, how elections work, etc. and other real life things that average adults do. It's super common outside the tech circles that you may be in.

	▲	gsinclair 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		I’d invite these adults to consider what their life might be like had they never learned maths, or other school subjects they considered a waste of time. Maybe awesome, but I doubt it.