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cyanydeez 4 days ago

I don't understand how many parts people really upgrade these days.

For one, the memory is soldered on because it's integral to the GPU the same way it's integral to the Apple's M3, and can be used the same up to 96gb.

At the form factor, what else are you expecting to upgrade over it's lifetime?

This statement makes it sound like there's a lot to upgrade when it's mostly just memory people seem confused about.

cherrycherry98 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Most people probably never upgrade their machines at all. In my case I used the same PC from 2009 until about a month ago. Over its 16 year lifespan it saw 3 GPUs, the memory was doubled from 6GB to 12GB, a Wifi card was added (and then got flakey after about 7 years but was able to switch to Ethernet over coax with MoCa), and an SSD was added for hosting the OS and most apps (original HDD relegated to additional storage).

If you're planning for a 10-12 year lifespan I have this advice. CPUs have surprising longevity these days as most usages don't significantly tax them, go a little above mid range on core count and it should last. GPUs are a throwaway item, plan to replace them every 3-5 years to stay current. Storage can be something that's worth adding if you're planning for a long lifespan and depending on usage. Photos, video, and games use more storage than they used to but personal photos and videos largely live in the cloud now. RAM you might need to upgrade if you go midrange but might not if you aim higher than standard in the initial build. The buses and interfaces become the main limiting factors to longevity. RAM technology will advance, PCIe and USB will have new versions. There may be new standards you can't take advantage of, like I was still on SATA II when the world had since moved on to SATA III and then NVMe.

Sometimes it's more about repairability than upgradability. My stuff lasted but I've had HDDs, PSUs, and fans die in the past. It's nice to be able to replace a dead part and move on.

I will also say that I'm a little surprised that the enthusiast market is still mostly these big ATX mid tower cases. They feel massive and unnecessary today when 5.25" bays are obsolete and storage is not 3.5" HDDs but an m.2 chips that sit flush with the motherboard. The smaller form factors are still the exception. Is it all to support the biggest and baddest high end GPUs that cost more than the rest of the system?

badlucklottery 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Is it all to support the biggest and baddest high end GPUs that cost more than the rest of the system?

I think it's more to have a big window with lots of RGB LEDs to show off on the internet.

Newer SFF cases from Ncase/Formd/Louqe are designed with perforations or mesh on every exterior surface to maximize air flow. They can support an air-cooled 5090 and an AIO or massive tower cooler for the CPU. Put a 1000W SFX PSU in there and I don't know if you'd really be wanting for anything spec-wise.

distances 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Is it all to support the biggest and baddest high end GPUs that cost more than the rest of the system?

For me, no. I bought a big case, Fractal North XL. It sits on the floor next to my desk so the size really doesn't matter at all to me, except I want it tall enough so that it's convenient to turn on.

It's a nice bonus that building and maintenance is also easier, but it's frankly it's the reaching convenience that matters the most. Could even be a bit larger still.

cherrycherry98 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Nice case! I actually do the same thing, PC lives on the floor next to my desk. I definitely rejected cases that had didn't have the buttons and front I/O on top for that reason.

tstrimple 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

A small platform to elevate the case off the floor can help lower dust accumulation and may also help it reach the perfect button pushing height for you!

distances 4 days ago | parent [-]

Hehe never thought of that but might not be a bad idea!

stevage 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Framework's whole reputation is based on upgradeable, modular design right? It's certainly surprising to me that their desktop seems to be the opposite of that.

loudmax 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

It is ironic, but there's a sound technical reason here. They wouldn't be able to get the same memory performance using upgradeable slotted DIMMs. I do appreciate that Framework offers the motherboards for sale so you can use them with your own case and power supply.

cyanydeez 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not surprising if you understand that minipcs are basically all just using laptop parts.

Really, it'd be surprising if they didn't go into that corner. Chinese makers have proliferated because there is a market for small devices that have external monitors, etc.

I think you're using your 2000's brain and not updating your firmware to the modern consumer appliance. We're watching computer tech growth decline sharply with fewer leaps and bounds.

So when I hear about this upgrade stuff, it's just sounds like 'get off my lawn' when it comes to this specific type of mini pc.

OJFord 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Frameworks laptops are upgradeable, that's their whole thing.

Dylan16807 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It's not surprising if you understand that minipcs are basically all just using laptop parts.

That makes it more surprising. It's not that desktops went off in a different direction. Desktops are moving closer to their area of expertise and yet they are unable to apply that expertise.

AshamedCaptain 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

But their own laptops happen to have upgrade-able memory. Truly, it is just unjustifiable.

organsnyder 4 days ago | parent [-]

Their laptops don't have Strix Halo chips.

AshamedCaptain 3 days ago | parent [-]

They do now, but that is besides the point. The people who buy framework are not asking for strix halo, or soldered memory: they're asking for modularity. That's why makes this so unexcusable.

1970-01-01 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There is a part salvage factor to consider. If one can pull the drive, they can attempt to send it out for data recovery or wipe it for resale. If they can also pull the RAM, they can recover more costs.