I don't think I'll ever understand why people buy such "smart" appliances. There's little value in it for the purchaser, and they come with a heavy price in terms of privacy and annoyance.

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gh02t a day ago | parent | next [-]

Less so for fridges, but in the TV space there are few alternatives. You can get a more expensive commercial display or maybe a projector, but most people don't even consider those options and the price is a lot higher. If you go to your local retailer, practically every TV on sale is likely going to have intrusive tracking and advertisements across all price points and mainstream manufacturers.

I expect a lot of manufacturers see the "successful" conversion of TVs from a one time sale to a near inescapable advertising platform and are trying to emulate that in other product segments.

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vladvasiliu a day ago | parent | next [-]

I have a "smart" tcl tv I bought during a sale. The only thing it costs me is that it takes somewhat longer to turn on than my "dumb" dell monitor.

It's not connected to the internet, it doesn't show me any ads. When I (rarely) turn it on with its remote it boots to the last used input. If I turn it on through my set-top box, it boots to the box's input. The box can control the TV's sound volume with its own remote, and the TV has an "ambient light sensor" which allows it to adjust to ambient light. I never need the tv's remote.

It's a 65" TV which cost less than my 32" monitor. Sure, the colors aren't as precise, but I don't use it for phot editing, and delta E is actually very low. The sound is good enough to not have to turn on my stereo, and I don't need to turn it up to 11 to understand voices (my dell has 0 sound). For watching mostly voice-based content (think talk-shows, comedies), it's great.

The company I work for regularly buys "dumb" screens to be used as "signage" (it's part of what we do). I've seen those screens. The image isn't any better than my TCL, but they cost 3-4 times as much. Sure, they're supposed to run all-day-long for multiple years and burn your retinas in 0.2 seconds flat, but I only watch my tv a few hours a week tops and not in direct sunlight.

So I'm a very happy camper. An equivalent dumb TV wouldn't be a noticeable improvement for my use case.

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gh02t 21 hours ago | parent [-]

I do something similar with an LG TV, but my point was you don't really have many good options if you want a TV that doesn't at least try to track you and the average consumer doesn't really know it's happening nor how to avoid it. Also, using a set top box on an external input is not free from tracking as most smart TVs use screengrabs and automatic content identification to figure out what you're watching even then. You can theoretically opt out deep in the settings, but it's often made confusing to do so via dark patterns.

As for network connections yeah my TV is on a firewalled VLAN that I can selectively let out if I want to do a software update, but my personal conspiracy theory is that we're gonna see cellular modems hidden in TVs at some point to pipe data back. GM got caught doing exactly that in their cars without telling anybody not long ago and I think it's already mostly forgotten. Even without that, most consumers want to plug their TV into the net anyway to watch Netflix, probably not realizing it's a poison pill.

I'm certainly not anti-"smart" appliances and I think they can add a lot of value if done well, but in response to the OP I'm saying that it's getting to the point that you're forced into it by the market regardless of your preferences. General consumers and legislators don't seem to care enough to stop bad practices via market or regulatory forces.

	▲	vladvasiliu 11 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Fun fact: I actually tried to connect to the internet when I got it. This, of course, prompted it to show me a bunch of ads on the "home screen". This didn't really stop me, after all, I never look at that page and it has direct access to what I watch (broadcast TV and Prime). But the prime experience was so horrendous, everything lagged like hell that I just couldn't keep using it. So I went ahead and did a full reset, which got rid of the ads, and I connected my ISP's provided box. I didn't try the broadcast tv performance, since I didn't have an antenna cable on hand. Now, I don't know about other markets, but here in France basically everybody gets their provider's box, even if it's only for public TV. It gets you nice affordances such as a generally better picture and the ability to pause/get back in time. Those boxen usually come with the usual streaming clients, too. So basically, there's no need to connect your TV directly, even if you're not paranoid. Sure, the TV can do its screen grabbing, but since it isn't connected to anything, the only possible issue is for its buffer to fill up and somehow break. This hasn't happened yet on my specific TCL. However, I do realize that my ISP can also know what I'm watching and sell this information to "partners". I've yet to see any ads on their box, but I wouldn't bet the house this will never change. So I agree with your last point, this will probably continue going downhill until we either see the public waking up (on which I don't count at all) or some regulatory action (which seems somewhat non-nil, especially here in the EU – but they seem to have bigger fish to fry, such as listening in on my chats themselves).

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JohnFen a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> in the TV space there are few alternatives.

This is true, which is why when my old, non-spying one breaks, I won't replace it.

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jeffwask a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The idea of it is incredibly appealing to the DevOps and Automation guy living inside me. The idea that I could scan groceries as I use them up and build a live shopping list, I can just push button send... sounds super cool to me. However, the Security guy that lives in me knows the reality is I am just installing barely functional spyware.

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general1465 a day ago | parent [-]

Just have a look into fridges of other people - absolute mess usually very tightly stacked. There is no way for some camera to even guess what "food" is it looking at let alone if it past the expiry date.

	▲	jeffwask 34 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I was more thinking of an external barcode reader, scan and toss.

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nomel a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have a smart gas range so I can remember if I left it on, and to automatically turn on my exhaust fans (that lead outside), to get rid of any pollutant concerns.

I’ve attached power monitors to my clothes washer and dryer to make them a little smart, for notifications when they’re done (auto dry feature means it’s not deterministic). Most people wouldn’t want to diy it.

Where I am, electricity is $.65/kwh during the day and $.19 at night. If my clothes dryer were electric, I would definitely run it on a schedule. I wish I could run my dishwasher in a schedule.

These all seem desirable, to the average person, and usually only available with the smart models.

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squarefoot a day ago | parent | prev [-]

To brag about them on social media, just like designer clothing etc.

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Spivak a day ago | parent [-]

I highly doubt that. High end appliances that are actually social media worthy are essentially the opposite of these tacky things.

If you're going to downvote then at least prove me wrong: the social media darling is the viking tuscany range, fridges are colorful 70's inspired with no "tech" -- smeg and it's competitors. Negative signaling at it's finest, it's a flex if you don't have any "smart" appliances.

	▲	squarefoot 21 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> fridges are colorful 70's inspired with no "tech" -- smeg and it's competitors. Agreed on that but probably there are different ways to waste money on shiny expensive things, likely depending on age, culture etc. Also general excessive trust in advertised technology paired with lesser knowledge about the dangers, especially when some appliance becomes obsolete after a few years, receives no security updates, if any, but keeps connecting to the Internet from the user LAN. That however is a completely different topic that someone soon will have to address to not turn any IoT installation in a field day for malicious actors. ps. I can't know if you were downvoted but if it happened it wasn't me. I never downvoted anyone just for disagreeing with me.