West Germany had a very strong army and better social systems than now until 1990. It could easily have built nuclear weapons, but wasn't allowed to.

The dichotomy between social programs and weapons (a variation of the old butter vs. guns nonsense) is false, and I suspect is just used by some people here who want to slash social programs no matter what.

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nradov 2 days ago | parent [-]

The situation prior to 1990 is hardly relevant today. Back then West Germany was still coasting on Marshall Plan largesse, and had low labor costs due to a favorable demographic profile and huge numbers of Gastarbeiter. That situation no longer obtains, plus they're still trying to develop the former East Germany after Soviet occupation wrecked it. Now if Germany wants to survive as an independent power with freedom of action then they'll have to make some tough choices.

If you want to claim that butter vs. guns is nonsense then please be specific and explain exactly where the money will come from. And let's not have any vague non-answers like "tax the rich" or "cut waste".

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bgwalter 2 days ago | parent [-]

The Marshall plan is overrated:

https://www.nzz.ch/english/how-the-marshall-plan-is-overly-r...

https://mises.org/mises-wire/marshall-plan-isnt-success-stor...

“Britain received twice as much aid as West Germany did, but economic growth in Britain dramatically lagged behind that of the Germans.”

Germany needs nukes and a navy to project power to solve the energy dependence. It isn't that expensive and could be done by eliminating waste in the procurement process. The money is already there. Oh yes, and tax the rich, especially landowners with multiple properties.

(Why would I listen to you preemptively ruling out viable strategies? I do not take orders here.)

	▲	nradov 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		So in other words you're proposing more wishful thinking and inaction. Germany has made many attempts to eliminate waste already with nothing much to show for it. As for their so-called "navy" it's a government jobs program with uniforms. Their warships aren't even able to defend themselves, let alone project power. What a joke. https://www.twz.com/news-features/german-navy-confirms-its-u...