> React isn’t just "winning by default" It's winning because at the core it's just JavaScript function composition. A component is a function, conditionals are `if (...) { ... } else { ... }`, loops are `map()`. JSX is just sugar for function calls.

I agree with JSX, and function components are nice, but React is most definitely not just function composition. Hooks add state and introduce life cycle events that take components way beyond stateless territory, to the point that it would be far easier to reason about them if they were class components with properties and decorators and handlers invocable through inversion of control.

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cjonas 4 hours ago | parent [-]

So basically react class components? It definitely was not easier in those days.

When your just using vanilla react, I've never had a problem with hooks being that hard to reason about. Once you add in SSR, routers, query caching frameworks, etc the "lifecycle & state" starts to get confusing.

This is mostly a problem with the additional complexity of these frameworks (nextjs, tanstack) and not react at its core. Building an app with just react (and maybe redux) feels so simple and natural once you learn the paradigm.

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the_gipsy 3 hours ago | parent [-]

But you cannot really develop anything meaningful without adding frameworks.

I guess redux solves both "state" and "messages" at once, that's good. But what you work with then is not "vanilla react" at all. I don't even think "vanilla react" can really exist, beyond toy examples. You either use frameworks or write them yourself (worse).

	▲	cjonas 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> But you cannot really develop anything meaningful without adding frameworks. You can develop extremely powerful web-apps using just React + Redux. Once you need to start dealing with SSR for SEO & server side caching, data preloading, hydration, etc... things get complex. But honestly that's because those concepts are inherently complex and that complexity can only be reduced so far. Another problem is they get baked into these framework as the "default" and often over utilized when they aren't actually needed.