It's "your computer" but it's "their OS". Go ahead and switch to Linux but the "systemd / snap packages / telementry etc. is being forced on my distro" complaints is exactly the same "adversarial relationship with my computer"(sic).

If you want things exactly your way, there's the Gentoo route if you don't mind supporting it yourself.

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dabockster a day ago | parent | next [-]

I’ve been playing around with Fedora KDE more lately and it’s made me realize how vertically integrated Windows is. Like there’s all these edge cases (too many to list) that Windows has taken care of years ago, whereas on Linux you’re usually downloading some 3rd party app that feels rough when installed. Or it’s something the kernel expects a driver to implement, but Windows handles it natively in Microsoft’s code.

When you think of it in a supply chain sense, Linux is one giant outsourcing operation and a whole bunch of “not my problem” project management styles.

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LexiMax a day ago | parent | next [-]

That's strange, because in my time using Fedora it was far and away the most vertically integrated Linux distro I've ever used.

It had the fewest Linux-typical papercuts, it was well-documented, and most importantly required the least amount of system tinkering I've ever done on Linux, allowing me to use my operating system to actually operate my system. It wasn't as turnkey as macOS, wasn't as compatible as Windows, and wasn't as "tinker" friendly as other distros, but it _worked_.

Then again, I was using the default GNOME spin, and I also try to meet OS's in the middle instead of brazenly insisting on my way or the highway. But it _is_ used as a base for RHEL, so it's not like Fedora is a typical stone soup distro either.

	▲	samtheDamned a day ago \| parent [-]
		This is my experience too, I distrohopped for about 2-3 years, and then when I found fedora it just clicked. I've been using it exclusively ever since. It was my first experience with vanilla GNOME and like you I wanted to meet the OS in the middle. The stability while still having reasonably up-to-date packages is so pleasant and everything felt like it was part of a whole in a way that my prior experimentation with arch and its derivatives and the different ubuntu skins didn't fully achive.

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anal_reactor a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I've migrated to Fedora KDE recently after having used Windows since childhood. Honestly it's not that bad. I mean, it's not good either - there are lots of random bugs or strange UI decisions - but all in all, it's not bad. I wouldn't install it on my mom's machine, but any tech-savvy person can use Fedora KDE with relative comfort. As in, the rough edges are there, but you won't hurt yourself if you know how to hold it.

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soraminazuki a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most Linux users don't have an adversarial relationship with systemd.

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pessimizer a day ago | parent [-]

Most don't know anything about it. Those who jump in to defend it constantly will keep calling anti-systemd people names even after it has a hard dependency on an IBM AI.

	▲	happymellon 6 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The only people I see defending systemd is normally due to baseless claims. My personal issue with it is that logs are stored in a database that (unless it's changed) the documentation is the implementation. There are a few places where people have reverse engineered the design to document it, but it would have been much better for them to use a documented format like sqlite.
	▲	soraminazuki a day ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		> Most don't know anything about it. Yes, thanks for confirming what I wrote... Uh, wait a moment, what? Most Linux users know nothing about systemd? Are we talking about the same Linux, the OS whose main users are developers and sysadmins? > even after it has a hard dependency on an IBM AI What are you on about? Nothing of the sort has happened.
	▲	nixosbestos 14 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		[flagged]

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KronisLV a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I feel like one could imagine some hypothetical Linux distro that works out of the box, has some baseline level of coherency and polish without you having to get your hands dirty, and also hasn’t been enshittified.

I have no idea what distro fits the bill the best, but surely it’s not like the only two options are: “be treated with no respect as the user” and “sink all of your time into into fixing things up”

Like how Linux Mint doesn’t force snaps on you like Ubuntu does. Probably not it, but one step of many in the right direction. Plain Debian is probably pretty close.

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debo_ a day ago | parent [-]

Zorin fits this bill, IMO. I install it for all kinds of non-tech folks and they all seem to be fine with it.

	▲	brewdad 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Zorin is great for users where the computer is an appliance. It was too dumbed down for me but I am not their target user. It would be perfect for my Dad or my brother.