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eulgro 2 days ago

Why would you buy overpriced cake mix in the first place? Buy flour, sugar, cocoa and sodium bicarbonate and... that's it?

Oh wait you probably have all of them already.

tpmoney 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Because they're not actually "overpriced"? A BC chocolate cake mix costs $2 at my local store. Let's compare to a cake recipe using ingredients from the same store and using this recipe [1] and this weight conversion chart from the recipe authors [2]. For grocery prices, I'll be picking the "normal" size item as if you were stocking a kitchen pantry (e.g. the 5lb bags of flour and the 4lb bags of sugar, not smaller "half the amount for twice the price" packs, but also not bulk packs).

* 270g flour: 65¢

* 6g baking powder: 10¢

* 3g baking soda: 1¢

* 4.5g salt: 1¢

* 64g cocoa: $1.15

* 354g sugar: 90¢

* 113g butter: $1.42

We'll skip the vanilla, milk and coffee in the KA recipe on the view that we're substituting for Betty Crocker cakes here, which aren't likely to have coffee and vanilla extract in them.

Both recipes require the baker to supply eggs and oil. KA wants less oil but one additional egg, the BC box mix wants more oil but one less egg. Calling it a wash here.

So the total cost for our home made cake, using just the portion of the ingredients that you (should) already have at home is: $4.24, over 2x the box mix. Even if you take out the chocolate and go for a plain vanilla cake, you're still taking $3.09. That KA recipe might taste better (in fact, it probably does based on my experience with KA recipes). But I'm not sure it tastes so much better that I wouldn't rather save the time and dishes.

[1]: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/chocolate-cake-reci... [2]: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/learn/ingredient-weight-cha...

glxxyz a day ago | parent [-]

The 15oz (pre-shrinkflation) Betty Crocker mix weighs 432g, 2/3 the weight of your recipe's flour and sugar alone, so your recipe is for a much larger cake.

Wal-Mart's own brand flour is about (Canadian) $C0.15/kg if buying 2.5kg, cake & pastry flour more like 24 cents/kg. Granulated Sugar is C$0.15/kg. I'm not sure where you're buying flour & sugar.

Your most expensive ingredient is butter but you could have easily chosen a recipe without butter. I reckon the cake with butter will be much better than BC's version though.

Other advantages of baking with a recipe are being able to scale the recipe up or down as needed, and always having the ingredients for many different recipes on hand without having to buy a vanilla cake mix, a brownie mix, a pancake mix, a waffle mix etc.

The main advantage of a recipe is tweakability. I find most commercial cakes far too sweet, and when I bake from a recipe I can find the point to which I can reduce the sugar without it becoming too bland.

I don't know whether they're harmful but I'm quite happy to cook a cake without Propylene glycol, Xanthan gum, cellulose gum, sodium stearoyl lactylate, monoglycerides, and monoesters of fatty acids

I've always been baffled by the popularity of pre-made recipe boxes. Maybe useful if I was camping or something, but not when I have access to an actual kitchen.

eichin 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

According to some (youtube) experiments, commercial brownie mix produces some aspects of brownies more consistently because it's ground finer (and mixed more uniformly) than the ingredients you can usually source. So it's not quite that simple (though it mostly is.)

inferiorhuman 2 days ago | parent [-]

So, cake flour?

al_borland 2 days ago | parent [-]

From what I remember it’s more about the industrial emulsifiers. They give a more sponge-like cake they people tend to enjoy.

davebranton 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I very strongly suspect that this preference is learned. I've never made anything from a mix, but I've baked brownies, cookies, sponge, tarts, biscuits and bread. They have all turned out perfectly delicious, without any need for the addition of whatever emulsifiers and what-not you'll find in the premixed packets.

This isn't to say that there's necessarily anything wrong with those ingredients. I'm sure that they're perfectly safe to eat, but they are simply not required. This seems to be a peculiarly American thing, permitting a large corporation to insert itself in the supply chain without there being any need whatsoever for them to be there.

In the rest of the world, where most of us live, there seems to be almost no examples of cake "recipes" containing anything other than basic ingredients. I've literally never even seen a recipe for anything that says "Add one box of brownie mix". I can hardly even imagine such a recipe existing. It boggles my mind.

al_borland 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> I've literally never even seen a recipe for anything that says "Add one box of brownie mix".

You don’t see that recipe because the only place most people see it is on the back of the box of brownie mix.

My family has predominantly made boxed mixes my whole life (though I think my grandma often made cakes from scratch). However, I haven’t seen people in my family use cake mixes in other recipes other than what is on the box.

The one exception might be a cookie recipe my grandma had that used jell-o mix, I think. But it also may have been generic gelatin, as they were chocolate chip cookies, there was no fruity jell-o flavor at all.

You’re right that people like what they’re used to. If you’ve only ever had cake from scratch, it’s going to be good, it’s still cake. The ones I’ve had, they are a little more dense and dry, while the boxed mixed have tended to be more moist and airy.

inferiorhuman a day ago | parent | prev [-]

  I've never made anything from a mix, but I've baked brownies, cookies,
  sponge, tarts, biscuits and bread. They have all turned out perfectly
  delicious, without any need for the addition of whatever emulsifiers
  and what-not you'll find in the premixed packets.
Without having tried the alternative that's a pretty weak claim.
markhahn a day ago | parent | prev [-]

it's not. cake flour is simply lower-gluten flour. ther's not a big difference between that and "AP" flour, but a big difference between it and bread or "strong" (high-gluten) flour.

muppetman 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because you live in a small apartment and don't have storage space for a thing of flour, a thing of sugar, cocoa you might use twice a year?

Because you have little kids and you want to give them a single easy-to-follow box with instructions on it?

Because you value convenience?

Honestly, what a silly take. The world thrives on convenience products.

account42 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Basic cake recipes are simple enough for even younger children to do and are a great way to teach basic cooking skills.

And if you only use flour and sugar twice a year then there's probably other things you would be better off making yourself.

foofoo12 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Because you have little kids and you want to give them a single easy-to-follow box with instructions on it?

Box mixes are a very US thing. I promise you that kids still get to bake in other countries. Having done both it is my opinion that messing with the raw ingredients is more fun.

muppetman a day ago | parent | next [-]

Well I live in New Zealand and we get them (various box mixes) for the kids to bake cookies, cakes, brownies etc. Yeah we have all the raw ingredients but it's easy for them to follow at their age. When they're older we'll get them to make them from scratch but for a Sunday afternoon activity a box mix is a great easy fun thing for them.

llbbdd 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Everything is a raw ingredient.

marssaxman 2 days ago | parent [-]

With that attitude, you might as well just buy a finished cake from the store!

llbbdd 2 days ago | parent [-]

You can, and you can use that cake as an ingredient in something else! But if your goal is to "make a cake" and put your own touches on it, likely that weighing out the ingredients is not worth your time outside of the educational context you describe wrt teaching kids. (e.g. "here's how cake is fundamentally made, and later here's a box mix that takes care of the most boring parts and works better than anything we can make at home without substantially more effort").

marssaxman a day ago | parent | next [-]

This strikes me as the same sort of semantic game one plays when claiming that "humans are actually fish"; while technically true, this drains the term of its utility.

While I take your point about economy, in my kitchen it would actually take less time to make a cake from flour, sugar, butter, and eggs, because we always have them - whereas buying a Betty Crocker mix would require a trip to a grocery store, and not the convenient one around the corner I usually visit.

Nor are the results entirely fungible: I'd always prefer to avoid ingesting preservatives, artificial flavors, corn syrup, etc.

account42 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What? If you want to make your own touch then varying the ingredients is one of the most impactful things you could do.

inferiorhuman 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Assembling your own cake mix is pretty easy if you really wanted to. Stick it in the freezer for whenever. However the prepackaged stuff is still likely to taste better because it uses industrial ingredients that will simply taste better.

A quick look at the first Betty Crocker mix I found on Safeway's site showed: corn syrup, xantham gum, and cellulose. Those will all contribute to the final texture and moistness.

Balgair 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I had a family member that used to work for the county in the SNAP-like assistance program.

He was aghast at the state of the average family. No, not the average one coming to the county for assistance, just the average.

The average household in the county was without a kitchen. Maybe a dorm fridge, maybe a microwave or a hotplate, typically neither. A Winnebago had better food preparation than the average county resident. Oh and the household thing was a huge misnomer, as census-wise the physical house has 3+ households in it. People were crammed in!. Plumbing problems were huge deals!

Like even considering to bake a cake on your own was laughable. You didn't even know of anyone that you could borrow an oven from. The poverty in the county was, and remains, shockingly high.

kragen 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I'm renting an apartment with a broken oven. I bought a used electric tabletop oven from the thrift store for US$17, several times larger than a toaster oven, with bimetallic thermostat and mechanical timer. I live in Argentina, but my memory is that rich-country thrift stores and garage sales have even lower prices, because there are less poor people competing to buy their wares. When my mother moved to Japan, she furnished her whole house from the sodai-gomi. For free.

My experience with poverty is that the main obstacles to things like cooking isn't lack of resources like ovens exactly. Rather, it's more like lack of autonomy; maybe someone will take your oven away because they are afraid you'll set the building on fire, or because they want it, or a combination. Or you're just mired in learned helplessness to the point it doesn't occur to you. Or you're not functional enough mentally to keep the oven clean enough to use. Or the police sweep your camp and your oven goes in the dumpster along with your birth certificate. Or maybe you can get the oven but your work shifts lack the predictability to be able to plan meals ahead of time.

But it's almost never because you can't come up with the US$17.

bluGill 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

SNAP like implies some poverty. They are likely not representative. Though it is still shocking.

i'm also shocked how many people I know who eat out often at fast food. I can make a better meal for less and it will be healthier as well. Even hight end resteraunts are obviously reheating the same industrial froozen meals.

mschuster91 a day ago | parent [-]

> i'm also shocked how many people I know who eat out often at fast food. I can make a better meal for less and it will be healthier as well.

A burger at McKing takes what, a minute to order, a minute to eat, and a minute to dispose of the wrapper paper.

Making a burger on your own? At least an hour worth of time just to buy the ingredients, drive home and store them appropriately so they don't go bad (which assumes you have a car in good working order and a fridge + freezer that work), another hour worth of time to cook it, oh and after you've eaten it you need to properly store all the leftovers...

It is not a coincidence that the rise of the popularity (and availability!) of processed ready-to-eat or fast food more or less correlates with women entering the workforce - one might even say that minimum-effort food was a requirement for women to work.

bluGill a day ago | parent [-]

I that shopping trip is once a week- it isn't a big deal. I spend an hour a day cooking, which does add up though-

mschuster91 a day ago | parent [-]

> I that shopping trip is once a week- it isn't a big deal.

... if you have a car that's roadworthy enough, time for the drive, money for the fuel, and even then, access to fresh groceries is not a given in the first place because there's no place selling them. 39 million Americans live in food deserts [1], and in places that are not food deserts, actual groceries can simply be unaffordable.

And then, once you have the ingredients, you need to store them. A bunch of stuff will only keep fresh if you have a working refrigerator, in some cases a working freezer... both are far from given. In really small apartments, you might not even have the space for even a small fridge, or you might be so poor your electricity is cut off. Or the apartment is too infested with rats and cockroaches to keep any kind of food that doesn't need (or goes bad in) a fridge and is not canned, which seriously limits the food you can prepare for yourself.

Oh and theoretically Costco or whatever large scale loads of food might be cheaper as well, but again, you need space to meal-prep and even more space in fridges and freezers to keep the food edible for a few days.

Poverty is fucking expensive in the long run because the lack of upfront money for stuff like a car, fridge and a residence with enough clean space forces people to use expensive options such as ready-to-eat meals or fast food - or to go and fill their caloric demand with ultra cheap soda that's in the end just sugar syrup.

Oh and the homeless, they got it even worse, they don't have any other option than that because they don't even have a safe roof over their head. And yet, people look at them eating burgers or soda and saying paternalistic condescending bullshit like "if they just saved on the burgers and soda they could afford an apartment", yeah no that's not how things work.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_deserts_in_the_United_Sta...

bluGill a day ago | parent [-]

Slow down, the vast majority of those eating fast food are not poor. They are not living in a good desert. They have car anyway, and access to groceries isn't a problem. They have a house or apartment with a working kitchen so they can store everything.

Costco is cheap, but so is Aldi with much smaller package sizes - I don't have a costco membership because Aldi is so close it isn't worth going often (we go about once a year, but with a friend who has a membership). Every place I've lived have also had discount grocery stores (Most Americans like me do not live in a good desert) - and the fast food just down the street still had a lot of customers.

The above are the people I'm talking about shocking me. They have the means to get cheaper and better meals at hand, but they don't use it.

Don't get me wrong, we should have conversations about poverty. However lets not mistake the majority situation for poverty in conversations. There are people who have all means to do eat better available and choose not to.

kjkjadksj 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The people relying on cake mid probably don’t have any of that in their pantry.