> I think people get the wrong idea that Wayland is telling them they can't ever do this, but it's really just telling application developers they can't absolutely count on being able to do it like they can in X.org.

That's still worse than what X.org provides. "You can maybe do it" is worse than "You can definitely do it".

> Secondly, the "Wayland is x years old" thing just doesn't make sense, this has to stop. This isn't a project with full time employees like at your job, it's a distributed open source effort.

That's fine. What's not fine is then insisting that this new thing that has spent 17 years to get to a point of not being able to provide an equivalent experience to X11 should be the default and/or should replace X11.

No one should even think about deprecating X11 until functionality under Wayland is a strict superset of functionality under X11.

> That's still worse than what X.org provides. "You can maybe do it" is worse than "You can definitely do it".

That's not worse, that's different. The positive side is that applications can't silently snoop around keylogging the system, transparently capturing things or using XTEST to bypass authorization.

Worse would be if you couldn't do it. On the contrary Wayland gives users more control over their machine than previously at least in principle (and application developers lose some control, which is obviously where a lot of frustration comes from.)

> What's not fine is then insisting that this new thing that has spent 17 years to get to a point of not being able to provide an equivalent experience to X11 should be the default and/or should replace X11.

> No one should even think about deprecating X11 until functionality under Wayland is a strict superset of functionality under X11.

X11 is mainly deprecated because nobody is really willing to work on it. The one person who wanted to work on X.org kept breaking shit. None of the desktops want to, or even can afford to, maintain X.org and Wayland paths forever. If people are upset they can get a full refund, at least.