> Does anybody have any optimistic hopes for the UK?

Not post-Brexit, no.

With Brexit, the UK voted to cut itself off from its:

  - nearest trading partner
  - source of seasonal and low-paid workers

But it also chose to do so in the hardest possible manner thanks to Boris's "deal".

As a result:

  - many businesses can't be bothered with the new paperwork that comes from being outside the zone
  - many businesses struggle because the free-movement labour is no longer available, e.g. farmers need seasonal pickers, restaurants need seasonal front-of-house staff etc.

There was a hope that Labour would change this given all the noises they made during opposition. But sadly they seem to be doubling down and continuing to brown-nose Trump.

Farage also has a seat in parliament, both the major parties are terrified of him, and so they continue trying to out-Farage Farage at varying levels. Which is a terrifyingly dangerous game to play.

Then there's all the usual stories of decades of lack of investment in public services etc.

▲ FirmwareBurner 16 hours ago | parent [-]

> - source of seasonal and low-paid workers

They replaced that with ease by issuing work visas to whoever wanted.

▲ traceroute66 15 hours ago | parent [-]

> They replaced that with ease by issuing work visas to whoever wanted.

Generously setting aside the broader general question of factual accuracy of your statement...

Work Visa is not the same thing as freedom of movement

Let us revisit the example of seasonal farm labour:

Picking is a skilled task. You are paid by the piece, ergo to make good money you have to pick many pieces, and you have to pick every single one in a suitably skilled manner to avoid undue damage.

During the season, skilled pickers, mostly of Eastern European origin, would travel on coaches through Europe from farm-to-farm to pick and earn good money before returning home at the end of the season.

No prior visa application required, just turn up and leave when done.

Pre-Brexit, this "picking tour" would include the UK of course. And it would be double win-win for the pickers because GBP was traditionally strong against their home currencies. So earning in GBP gave them a standard of living boost back home.

Now post-Brexit, no UK citizen wants to be a seasonal picker. And nobody from abroad is going to go through the time (and expense !!) of getting a visa for seasonal picking.

▲ FirmwareBurner 15 hours ago | parent [-]

>Generously setting aside the broader general question of factual accuracy of your statement...

Spare me your generosity, because I'm bringing receipts.

  | Year | UK Immigration (K/000s) |
  |------|-------------------------|
  | 2014 | 630 |
  | 2015 | 630 |
  | 2016 | 650 |
  | 2017 | 617 |
  | 2018 | 580 |
  | 2019 | 677 |
  | 2020 | 616 |
  | 2021 | 1,100 |
  | 2022 | 1,200 |
  | 2023 | 1,326 |
  | 2024 | 948 |

If you'll notice, immigration virtually doubled after Brexit thanks to the government opening the doors and rubberstamping visas till 2024.

▲

traceroute66 15 hours ago | parent [-]

The UK is dependent on immigrants.

Always has been, and will increasingly be because of its aging population.

As the old question goes .... who is going to wipe your arse when you are old and decrepit ?

It won't be a "Candice" or "Wayne" from Essex that's for sure. :p

	▲	FirmwareBurner 13 hours ago \| parent [-]
		>The UK is dependent on immigrants. Why move the goalposts? I was just fact checking you on your claim that UK removed access to low paid workers after Brexit when clearly they didn't, in fact they doubled immigration when you look at post-Brexit numbers, that's all. Whether huge immigration is good or not I didn't and won't get into.