Remix.run Logo
ambicapter 4 days ago

Wait, so we're now approaching risk levels high enough that's its economically feasible for businesses to prepare for situations where their stores lose power, telecom, and resupply? Are we already preparing for land war across western Europe?

TazeTSchnitzel 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think Denmark in particular is preparing, because at the end of the year their national postal service will cease to deliver letters (after the government removed the legal requirement for it to do so), and more than 85% of Danes will only be able to receive government and commercial letters in digital form via a privately owned cloud service (e-Boks). That is an alarming level of concentration. If I were hypothetically in control of a state that was planning to go to war with Denmark and had the resources for hybrid warfare, I know which company's servers I'd want to take down first.

TowerTall 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Denmark are. Only two days ago the danish PM on public TV said the had ordered the head of the danish military to "buy, buy, buy" [1][2] [as many weapons as the can get their hands on]. This is repeatition of of what she said 6 months ago[3]

[1] https://www.dr.dk/drn-video/67b5f9f966d82a0507aeda6a

[2] https://www.berlingske.dk/politik/mette-frederiksen-vil-slaa...

[3] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-boost-2025-26-d...

Eupolemos 4 days ago | parent [-]

Not 2 days ago, but in February, iirc.

We are thankfully on quite the shopping spree, we have also decided to include women into conscription (and that conscripts can be used for real missions, iirc) and we are financing and building Ukrainian weapons like the Flamingo.

Also, Scandinavia has pooled our airforces into one airforce, surpassing the UK, France etc. in size.

W3zzy 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Belgian youngsters aged 17 wil get a voluntary call for 'vacation camps' in the army in a few weeks. Recently a lot of people were hired four the federal and regional governments to handle strategic supplies. All Belgians were asked to stock their own 3 day emergency kit.

mytailorisrich 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Damn, France's plan to retake Wallonia has been discovered!

W3zzy 4 days ago | parent [-]

Au contraire, mon ami. In all the geopolitical madness it's time to reclaim what was ours onder Charles Quint. Habsburg rises again! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V,_Holy_Roman_Emperor#...

brnt 3 days ago | parent [-]

Fun fact: Karel spoke Flemish natively.

W3zzy a day ago | parent [-]

Diets, indeed.

Cthulhu_ 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean war aside, the 3 day kit is always a good idea - power outages happen, freak weather events, supply chain issues, strikes, or even not feeling like going out which is very common.

As for the army vacation camp, I think it's good experience (same with scouting for example), although there's probably a huge recruitment angle there.

Personally I wouldn't mind a stint in the military, but at the same time I'm nearly 40 and not exactly fit if you catch my drift. That said, the military is also looking for a lot of reservists, people who do some jobs outside of their day job, some in IT security, base guarding, that kind of thing.

W3zzy 3 days ago | parent [-]

I think Belgium is the most stable unstable country in the world. We're always on strike, only surpassed by the French. At any given moment one of our seven governments is in a state of crisis. Somehow I feel like we'll make it though three days of lockdown without any issues.

I tried to sign up as a reservist - civil personell - because I feel like my logistic expertise could come in handy but sadly I passed 40 a few years ago and I'm deemed to old for service, even as a reservist.

TowerTall 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

She repeated it two days ago on live danish TV. See link 1 and 2 in my previous comment

Eupolemos 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Aaaaaand we just bought for 7.7 billion euro earth-based European airdefenses.

OptionOfT 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wow. I'm in software and my whole house is as automated as can be, but I want my important documents physical, and delivered via the mail.

Credit card bills, notices, etc. I don't want to have to log in every time I want to check a bill / notification, only to have to pull out my Yubikey or phone.

Not to mention having to click 'no' to all the popups about new credit cards or subscription upgrades.

fy20 4 days ago | parent [-]

My country does this, however there are multiple authentication options.

The main one is a private company that provides an authentication system using private certificates. When you try to login to an authenticated website your phone pops up a message asking you to verify the login and enter your PIN. That signs the request with your private certificate and sends it back to the provider. Other actions such as transfering money or signing contracts require you to authenticate using a different certificate, with a different PIN. The private certificate stays on your device (there are mechanisms to generate a new one if you lose your device).

The other options are ID cards with a USB card reader or a mobile signature in the SIM card of your phone. For government website and utility companies you can usually authenticate with your bank as another option.

I prefer it to username/password as all I need is my ID number (which unlike the US doesn't need to be private) and my phone. And basically everything you need to use to adult uses this system.

OptionOfT 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Sounds exactly like the system we used in Belgium.

I don't think the system you explain is bad. It's essentially PKI.

My issues are deliverability: what if I get the email and never open it? What if it gets marked as spam?

And it requires me to read emails, something I've actually tried to reduce because every subject is screaming for attention.

whatevaa 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What if phone is destroyed? It's a mobile device, can happen any time.

Symbiote 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From next year, national post will be handled by a different company than currently does the job.

TazeTSchnitzel 3 days ago | parent [-]

From next year there will still be one private company claiming to offer this service, yes, but they are under no obligation to keep doing so, and if the market is already so unprofitable that the national postal operator immediately exited it once freed from the obligation of remaining in it, it is questionable how long a private company will remain.

One particular concern I have is whether that company will be connected to the Universal Postal Union; if they aren't, sending letters to and from foreign countries will suddenly be a minefield. I don't know and have been trying to find out.

xquce 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You seen to have failed to understand both solutions and changes you mention... the technology stack of our digital post and the change of letter delivery (I don't blame you, many of my fellow Danes don't understand it either).

But Eboks is not holding all digital post of all our citizens, it's one of at least 3 services who we can choose from to read our mail from the governmental organizations. It's a freemarket compromise with multiple private and public solutions the public can choose from.

Also while yes the private company that did deliver physical mail no longer will, another have taken its place for physical letter... Isn't that freemarket capitalism? Why should one private entity have the contract for all time?

Your post does read like the old "Denmark is a specialist hellhole" posts from the conservatives when Bernie Sanders dared using the country as an example of doing Social Wellfare + Free market right.

olau 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, the only dumb thing about the digital mail is that they're not just using email with an official registry.

They could have started some kind of certification thing for email providers and even funded a couple of certified email providers much more effectively than the digital post monstrosity.

That would have been awesome and forward looking, and perhaps even helped ordinary people get better security for their personal emails.

Perhaps we'll get there some day.

TazeTSchnitzel 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think a massive market concentration in a single cloud service is good for societal preparedness, regardless of whether there are technically other options.

In the same way, it concerns me how much Sweden relies on BankID, but that's a different thing.

stefs 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"specialist hellhole" :D

xquce 3 days ago | parent [-]

I'll leave the autocorrect as is

wojciii 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is because of the Ukraine war.

We as a country are exposed to being attacked by Russia. Be that cyber attacks or destruction of assets by sleeper agents.

So instead of decentalizing the electrical grid and making sure it's secure someone at Dansk Supermarked thinks it will earn them money to be prepared for some future crisis.

I find the article native.. it says they trust Nets (payment company) to work offline ..

dmix 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I have a feeling tens of thousands of drones would be a better investment if your concern is Russia vs NATO. But if it’s just a business reacting to popular sentiment then it’s a fine business strategy I guess. Or just useful spin / wealthy owners paranoia.

brendoelfrendo 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

The people in a position to buy thousands of drones and the people in a position to build emergency supermarkets aren't the same people. And regardless, if you do find yourself in a war--especially if it's a defensive one--you need both.

scrollaway 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Don’t worry, most countries are buying tens of thousands of drones. That investment is happening. (Source: I work in this sector)

(Worth noting: Your comment sounds like “I have a feeling fixing (critical bug 1) would be a better investment than (fixing critical bug 2)”. You fix both.)

wojciii 4 days ago | parent [-]

I don't want to fix any legacy code. I want a design that doesn't contain the bugs.

Attacking a distributed grid would probably not be cost effective.

scrollaway 4 days ago | parent [-]

A distributed grid is not a one-and-done solution to everything. Supply chain can stop for a number of reasons, not just electricity.

Eupolemos 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The important thing is stocks. My guess is that more and more people has some cash lying around, esp. with NETS' last failure

ReptileMan 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>We as a country are exposed to being attacked by Russia.

No you are not. First - no one can find you on a map. You are so tiny. Second for a conventional warfare Russia will have to go trough many many countries to get to you, no matter which road they take (also anyone that thinks Russia is a credible threat is smoking something strong - they don't have the capacity to subdue backwater as eastern Ukraine, let alone more developed and prepared countries as Poland, Germany or Finland, Sweden). And preparedness won't help you for nuclear.

wojciii 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

A cyber attack is still an attack.

Sabotage by agents is an attack.

Russia is a terrorist state and will attack this country sooner or later. It's just a question of time.

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

I don't think denmark has any moral high ground while holding greenland as a colony.

olau 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Greenland can become independent if they wish. There would be some things to work out, but the legal framework has been in place since the 1970es. And they seem to be working towards the goal.

The reason it hasn't happened yet is that they'd either have to increase tax income greatly, or reduce public spending greatly with financial support from Denmark. As I gather, infrastructure up there is really expensive.

ochrist 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Please check your history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Greenlandic_self-governme...

guappa 3 days ago | parent [-]

Oh since 2008 it is slightly less bad! (I knew). And? It's still bad.

modo_mario 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ridiculous imo but that aside. Do you think any other country involved here has a moral high ground? Russia, The US?

wojciii 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Whatavoutism?

Good work.

ochrist 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The distance between Kalilingrad (Russia) and the island of Bornholm (Denmark) is only about 300 km (or 200 miles). They don't have to go to 'many many countries' to get to Denmark. Please look at a map.

ReptileMan 3 days ago | parent [-]

Ahh yes. The military powerhouse that is Kaliningrad - which to make any kind of buildup or resupply you have to trample trough two NATO countries. Or to sail Russia's nonexistent or pathetic (in best of times) fleet trough a lot of hostile waters.

mrguyorama 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

The west always assumed Russia would (attempt to) close the gap between Belarus and Kaliningrad at Poland's corner.

>The military powerhouse that is Kaliningrad

Kaliningrad actually does have a sizable (for Russia) military investment, which is why the west would expect them to defend it in that way.

I don't think Russia COULD do that anymore, unless it was entirely a Belarus operation. But if they succeed at rushing that gap, current war "meta" is extremely defensive-sided. Russia may not have a meaningful "fleet" but they certainly have enough working and pretty good submarines to make hell for anyone trying to then supply Lithuania.

hnbad 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You know where Kaliningrad is but you couldn't find Denmark (aka the country that includes that big piece of land next to Canada that Trump and Vance have been talking about annexing) on a map?

Symbiote 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Denmark's kingdom includes Greenland. It's the 12th largest sovereign country.

vintermann 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Well, it's not Russia Greenland is worrying about currently.

wojciii 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Bingo.

mordae 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Sorry, but Russia is a credible threat that keeps killing people in Ukraine and threatens going nuclear.

China is betting on us rather pivoting than engaging with Russian army. If we seem tough enough, we call it.

We can then also negotiate better rate for the US protection racket, becauss the US fuckers decided to more than double the rate recently and we are unhappy about that. Long term we will rearm ourselves on our own terms.

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

Of course they threaten going nuclear.

Every country that has nuclear weapons has them because of the threat of using them.

If a state would say "we will never, in no circumstance, ever use these weapons" then why spend the money to have them in the first place?

USA, pakistan, russia, france, india and so on… they all have these weapons to threaten using them.

mihaaly 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is land war in Europe. With the Russians agressively pushing for continuation!

Germany had their nationwide emergency test yesterday. there are various suggestions in countries about how to stack essentials for few days without anything - mostly means power that drives everything -, keeping some amount of cash at home, train citizens (mandatory) for basic defensive abilities.

Since there are these stupid 'we are good, fuck everyone else' kind of movements all around the world including US and parts of EU (look at the practically Russian ally Hungary by the way, protecting Russian interests directly inside EU) the whole thing became very reasonable, approaching essential level.

maxerickson 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

3 days isn't very long, it's reasonable to look at this as a generic resiliency thing rather than response to some identifiable risk.

lovich 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

It’s also reasonable to look at it as a “the populace goes nuts every time there’s some minor shock to the logistics chain, so might as well prepare for that reaction”

wisty 4 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah, there doesn't need to be a shortage of toilet paper to cause problems, just the fear that panic buying might start so you better stock up before they hit. It's basically a prisoner's dilemma, you know you shouldn't panic buy, but if you don't and other people do it's rational to do it.

What would be a signal that you should panic buy to beat the rush? A drone shot down over Poland? Article 4 being invoked? What if a falling drone causes a casualty?

Simply having deeper stocks will let them avoid the empty shelf photos that can tip the balance into panic buying.

georgeecollins 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In the USA I try to have what we need for one week with food and without power or potable tap water. This just seems like common sense. After the SF earthquake in 89 you weren't supposed to drink the tap water for a couple days. Lots of things have taken out power and COVID made shopping difficult. Resilience is good.

jandrewrogers 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

3 days is a pretty long time unless the damage is catastrophic and very broad based. Extended preparations come with an overhead cost that must be offset by the benefit.

Denmark specifically is not a populous country. You could probably keep the entire country fed with just the capacity of e.g. the US military airlift capability, which has been used in these situations. The emergency reserves mostly only need to exist until supply chains are established. It is a balancing act.

jusssi 4 days ago | parent [-]

> US military airlift capability

That'll cost them Greenland.

jandrewrogers 4 days ago | parent [-]

Fair.

mschuster91 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Given people are already advised to stockpile for at least a week if not two, it's both deepening the resiliency capacity for all, and providing capacity for those too poor (either cashflow-poor or housing-poor) to stockpile.

mordae 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Denmark is exposed via sea and practically neighbors with Poland that is already being probed by Russian military. People I know are volunteering for army training in Czechia and reportedly the number of such volunteers is rising.

Cthulhu_ 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's only one possible scenario, but more realistic and actual is a regular power outage, like the one that hit Berlin the other day. (ok that was sabotage / someone started a fire, but you get what I mean).

In the Netherlands the power grid is at capacity, which effectively means new businesses are on a waiting list to get connected; they do that to try and prevent power outages, but it does imply (to me, a layperson) that it wouldn't take much for the grid to get overloaded and shut down. It happened a few years ago [0], with high-voltage cables getting so hot they started sagging etc.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9J5D8jzrRo

Barrin92 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

we may or may not but I don't think this is reflective of it. This is just the fragility of digital societies were one hack or outage can kill entire national payment systems. A few decades ago any store could run three days without power or telecoms.

Here in Germany foreigners often scoff about how prevalent cash is, but to this day nobody has yet invented a payment technology that works without electricity, without transaction costs, and without a third party. As far as I'm concerned cash is still the most futuristic technology we ever invented

inigoalonso 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

The “no transaction cost” claim is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Cash may feel free to the person handing over a coin, but only because the costs are hidden upstream. Someone has to produce those notes and coins, swap out designs to keep ahead of counterfeiters, move them around in armored vans, count and recount them in tills, reconcile them at the bank, and insure against theft along the way. None of that is costless.

In fact, many retailers will tell you that cash is more expensive to handle than card, because every deposit requires staff time and often explicit bank fees. Society also pays indirectly through tax evasion and black-market activity, which cash enables far more easily than digital systems.

You’re right that cash is robust in a blackout, and there’s something elegant about a technology that works offline, peer-to-peer, and without needing servers to stay up. But the idea that it has no transaction costs is not realistic.

chiph 3 days ago | parent [-]

Most of the cost of currency is up-front in it's production and initial distribution. The cost of handling it is also mostly up front (purchasing a wallet to hold it, buying a cash register with a drawer for the bills and coins). The transactional costs are things like taking it to the bank for depositing. But if you have cash to deposit - your business is probably doing things right and this is negligible.

scotty79 3 days ago | parent [-]

> The transactional costs are things like taking it to the bank for depositing. But if you have cash to deposit - your business is probably doing things right and this is negligible.

It's not neglible to the point that some sellers where it's legal don't take cash because credit cars fees there cost less than cash handling.

chiph 2 days ago | parent [-]

For them, the risk of keeping cash on the premises is probably paramount. Of robbery, employee theft, of employees not being able to make change correctly (or getting taken advantage of by a quick-change artist).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLDgLOga6oE

jandrewrogers 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The US experiences these situations regularly due to its somewhat unique exposure to a dizzying array of severe natural disasters.

Having survived an above average number of these in my life myself where basic services were down for many days, I have a pretty good idea of what happens. Having cash versus digital doesn’t matter. No one is keeping track, people just take care of people. Everyone writes it off, moves on, and the community becomes stronger.

This is pretty wired into the culture. No one will accept your money in these scenarios even if you have it.

anonym29 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Precious metals fill all of your requirements. They do have other challenges, some shared with FIAT, some unique, but we've had the "technology" to solve this problem for thousands of years.

XorNot 4 days ago | parent [-]

Tell me, what weight in gold do I exchange for a loaf of bread? Do you have a way to measure and subdivide it to hand? Do you trust the scales being lent to execute this?

anabab 4 days ago | parent [-]

Check "valcambi combibar". Its a gold plate pre-divided into 1g pieces you can break away (like a chocolate bar).

1g is ~100 of money today, which would be enough for a weekly supply of groceries for a person in HCOL areas.

anonym29 2 days ago | parent [-]

Additionally, one need not use gold; silver is easier to subdivide into manageable units for even smaller monetary values.

mschuster91 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We are not preparing for war in Europe. Europe is at war with Russia, with all the murders and sabotage acts of the last years.

ileonichwiesz 3 days ago | parent [-]

Very true, but there’s still a huge difference between acts of sabotage and missiles hitting cities. We might be at war, but so far it’s a comfortable one.

mschuster91 3 days ago | parent [-]

Well, just a day or two ago Russia sent drones into Poland, most likely intentionally.

Not to mention we get to deal with all the refugees from that godforsaken war.

xp84 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, in my humble opinion anyone in Europe that considers wider war breaking out to be farfetched is not paying enough attention.

You can be forgiven however if you're a millennial (as I am) or younger, because the long peace has been so long that it seems crazy that Russia might start dropping bombs, say, on Copenhagen or London. "They wouldn't dare attack NATO" we would have said 10 years ago. But today, NATO is at risk since too much of its credibility is tied to the US and the US is now unpredictable. With one stroke of an "executive order" pen the US could just call backsies and pull out if one man considers it politically advantageous to him to do so. That has been unthinkable for 75 years and now it's just reality.

Russia is a lot less afraid of Western Europe than they were/are of NATO. Would they win? IDK. But my perception is that the very notion of war would shock the s**t out of the 20-somethings that Western Europe would need to conscript in order to fight an all-out war. If too many refused to fight, Putin might just roll in there relatively unchallenged.

Note: US civilians are certainly not any more ready to enlist than Europe's! But the US is the only Western country with (almost) enough people already enlisted to be a credible threat in a major war.

riffraff 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

All out war shocked the shit out of the 20 somethings in Ukraine too, many fled, and yet Russia has not made significant advances in the following three years.

There's no plausible world in which Russia has the strength to take on the rest of Europe, in, say, the next ten years.

(Let's assume nukes are out of the question)

TiredOfLife 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Rest - maybe not. But russia currently holds territory about the size of the 3 baltic states. And Ukraine before 2022 had about 10 times larger army than those 3 countries combined.

riffraff 2 days ago | parent [-]

yes, but we're talking of waging war against actual NATO and the EU, not a country which was vaguely friendly towards the west.

No european country has actually put a lot of effort into supporting Ukraine, but if an actual EU+NATO member was attacked things would be different. Even without the US.

It's not accidental that Russia invaded Ukraine and Georgia but not the baltic states.

scotty79 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not conventionally, but they still can cause a nuisance with long range weapons and even few nukes out of thousands they advertise might still be accidentally operational.

wiseowise 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> There's no plausible world in which Russia has the strength to take on the rest of Europe, in, say, the next ten years.

Sure they do. Total war + support from norks and China will do it.

vintermann 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Something the fresh european patriots overlook is that the parts of Ukraine Putin managed to hold on to overlap very closely with the areas most hostile to the rehabilitation of Ukrainian nationalism/most positive to Russia (at least to some largely imaginary Russia which defeated the Nazis but wasn't really communist, i.e. Putin's Russia).

If it's that costly to hold onto areas where most people actually like Putin relatively speaking, how much more expensive wouldn't it be to hold onto areas to where people hate him?

mytailorisrich 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Actually, those who remember the 90s and, before that, the Cold War see and understand that Europe is much safer now that it was then. The USSR was much stronger relative to Western Europe then. Now Russia is probably at its weakest relative to NATO (it might have been weaker in the early 90s but NATO had also not expanded to its current footprint).

Rememeber also that there was a hot war in the middle of Europe (former Yugoslavia) during the 90s with the US even carrying airstrikes on an European capital (Belgrade).

Obviously this does not mean that European countries should have weak militaries or not show strength. But the threat of Russia is overblown and used to manufacture consent in public opinion for more spending and more EU integration at a time when people already suffer economically and are already squeezed, and growing disatisfied with the EU.

IMHO, the highest risk of violent instability in Western Europe now and in the coming years is not Russia but mass immigration and islamist terrorism at large. And perhaps that's also partly why governments are trying to deflect attention...

> it seems crazy that Russia might start dropping bombs, say, on Copenhagen or London.

Yes, that is totally crazy.

xp84 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Russia is probably at its weakest relative to NATO

What NATO? The one that included the US? Have you not been paying attention to Trump directly stating that he might not honor Article 4 if he doesn't feel like it?

And let's be completely honest, I'd be willing to bet any amount of money that European governments would for their part completely decline to send any significant manpower to intervene if the US were attacked by China or North Korea. In spite of Article 4, public opinion would be that the US "deserves it" for its poor diplomacy and for electing Trump.

NATO is no longer relevant, sadly, unless the US makes a huge turnaround in its commitment to it. NATO is in 2 parts: America, and everybody else, and neither side any longer has a firm commitment to actually go to war for the other. So the relevant part of NATO is "all NATO countries except the US":

https://www.reddit.com/r/Infographics/comments/1cud48e/nato_...

scotty79 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Now Russia is probably at its weakest relative to NATO

That's exactly why there's gonna by full scale war with russia. It's simply the best moment for it and russia showed it can't be left alone.

mytailorisrich 3 days ago | parent [-]

Are you suggesting that NATO is going to start a war against Russia, the country with the largest nuke stockpile?

That's bonkers on all levels, and more.

scotty79 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Largest nuke arsenal that they could find even one in, that they would be sure enough it works to detonate even on their own vast wasteland as the show of force?

Ask yourself why despite ample amount of scaremongering russia didn't detonate even one, just for show? If they tried and failed they'd demonstrate weakness.

And rockets? All they could demonstrate in 3 years was a single stripped down monkey patched small sort of ICBM and even that after making some very nice crater in russia on previous attempted launch.

Might of russia is mostly American PR stuck from the times of cold war.

ath3nd 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Russia can't deal with small Ukraine for 4 years. Their outdated poor tech and drunkard band of villagers called "soldiers" can't defeat a country with 5 times less population. Even with the help of the equally poor and unqualified North Korea and the jihadists of Khadirov, Russia hasn't achieved anything substantial but lose north of a million poor conscripts.

I want to remind you Russia's long distance rockets have largely self destructed on Russian territory even without a liftoff: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/24/europe/russia-sarmat-miss...

A single misstep of the Russian war criminals on EU soil, and they will be obliterated in seconds. It's bonkers to think otherwise.

guappa 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That is basically NATO propaganda to convince people it's ok to stop paying for healthcare because we need to buy weapons, so that guys like Crosetto can become even richer.

Is it true? No.

Also air force is not so useful and we are spending insane amounts into that.

xp84 3 days ago | parent [-]

Military spending is healthcare -- think of it as preventative medicine so that you don't get sudden massive lead poisoning when Putin decides it would be nice to have more territory.

I'm being cute above with the phrasing, but your attitude of "why spend on military, it's wasted money" is obsolete thinking. It's based on a world where the US was spending enough to intimidate Russia or anyone else from stepping out of line, and where the US could be relied upon to keep their commitments.

It was logical for Germany, for instance, to spend only 1.2% for the past 25 years because the NATO obligations guaranteed the US's support and the US's leaders understood the qualitative ROI of having all of Europe firmly in its own sphere of influence.

Now, regardless of how we feel about it, it's foolish to depend on the US anymore. NATO still has some value -- the US may defend parts of Europe, and under this presidency it probably depends on stupid stuff like how impressed Trump is by your head of state's handshake, how hot their wife is, whether they compliments Trump, etc. But you can't stake your safety on that silliness.

guappa 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Russia is already very large and sparsely populated. They don't want more territory. What they want is to not be surrounded by enemies, which is why the current war is happening: basically try to force a regime change after the USA did their regime change a few years ago.

USA could not defeat afghanistan so I doubt it intimidates anyone really… if we are talking conventional warfare.

Anyway despite all of Trump's bullshit talking points, USA will do as always militarily, because it's convenient to them that EU doesn't become independent.

4ggr0 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> But my perception is that the very notion of war would shock the s*t out of the 20-somethings that Western Europe would need to conscript in order to fight an all-out war

as a 20-something western european i don't see why i should die because some politicians behave like absolute fucking pieces of shits. if war breaks out in my country or they start conscripting people like me i'll just flee the country together with whomever would like to join me.

xp84 3 days ago | parent [-]

This is called cowardice and nihilism. If we all run to "safety" when evil comes, evil will happily take over everything.

4ggr0 3 days ago | parent [-]

i'll gladly live as a nihilist coward in safety. will leave the optimistic and heroic option of getting blown up by a drone on a muddy field, slowly choking on your own blood and leaving behind your closest ones to people who aren't such cowards like myself.

thanks for your service.

xp84 a day ago | parent [-]

lol. Enjoy your “safety” - it’ll be short-lived

autoexec 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Between the threat of war, the fragility of the systems we depend on, and the uncertainty of climate change it seems like a good idea to be a little more prepared for disaster than we've felt the need to be.

amarant 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I sure am! And as a strategical prepper, I've left the entire continent behind well before shit hits the fan.

Hopefully I'll have my new life sufficiently set up to help those I love and left behind, and even more hopefully they'll be able to get out, once the shit actually hits.

I'd like for them to come to me earlier, but I don't think I'll get more than visits until bombs start falling. If I'm lucky some of them will already be here visiting me when that happens. Then they can just stay. The rest will at least know they have a safe haven if they can just manage to get here.

Izikiel43 4 days ago | parent [-]

Asia, Australia or south America?

amarant 4 days ago | parent [-]

Technically North America! But people don't tend to think of Mexico that way.

It's not trouble free, not by a long shot. I have family connection to here though and I recon Mexico is not very likely to partake in WW3 in any meaningful way, so should be safe from what I worry is coming soon for Europe.

For now tho, I'm definitely less safe than my friends and family back in Sweden. In the short term at least. I don't think Putin is going to change that this year, and probably not next year either, but honestly who knows.

lm28469 4 days ago | parent [-]

How would you feel if ww3 never happens and you moved from Sweden to Mexico for nothing? It seems like a major step down except if you have Mexican relatives

jandrewrogers 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I dunno, Mexico is a pretty great place. You could do a lot worse than Mexico. Many people have moved there “temporarily” and then never went back to their native country.

The lifestyle is legit. No one requires you to go to the famously sketchy parts.

lm28469 3 days ago | parent [-]

Still, you're giving up on your whole life for an hypothetical event that's been prophesied since the 50s. If you wanted to move in the first place or had family there why not, but if the sole reason is fear...

Imagine leaving the US for Mexico in 1962 because the "cold war is about to go warm"

Izikiel43 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Sweden to Mexico for nothing

Unless you like to ski, and the long dark winters, weather in mexico is an upgrade, except for the occasional hurricane.

amarant 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Meh, it's sunny and nice here, I'll feel pretty good regardless. Living on the beach is underrated! And it's been great connecting a bit more with my wife's family.

Gotta focus on the bright side, and I do love the climate here!

I could do with a little less cartel parties that go on through the night at the neighbours house. They're loud and it's not like I'm gonna go knock on that particular neighbours door, knowing fully well who the guests are...

lm28469 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Better be ready and nothing happens than being sitting duck thinking Europe will be free of wars forever. Governments spend money on much more ridiculous things

These things are the equivalent to people having an emergency backpack with their travel documents a bottle of water and a few dehydrated meals, statistically you will never need it but if anything happens you'll be glad you're not roaming the streets in pyjama, barefoot and without any documents/food

4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
numpad0 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It doesn't have to happen as last-ditch everyone gets a pike situation right on Danish soil, could be downstream effects of e.g. China closing all international ports. I think that much would be starting to get within realms of possibilities now.

maxbond 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Everyone should give that some thought but look at Texas. In 2021 they were devastated by a snowstorm. This year they were devastated by flooding. Not to pick on Texas, they aren't the only ones caught under prepared for severe weather. Wildfires and drought in the western states is another thing we're under prepared for. And look at the hoarding of toilet paper etc. in 2020. I presume there's been problems in Europe that I'm not aware of that are more relevant to Denmark's calculus.

The climate is changing. Natural disasters are going to be more common. It's prudent to prepare for it.

TazeTSchnitzel 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Just this last week, all the major cargo train lines in northern Sweden suffered big derailments simultaneously, and several dozen roads were made unusable. This was all from a single incident of unusually heavy rain. The country will have badly damaged logistics on the North-South axis for weeks to come, maybe months. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vasternorrland/stora-probl...

Preparedness is vital!

jauntywundrkind 4 days ago | parent [-]

Does anyone have an English language post for this story? That sounds like quite a yikes!

sebastianz 4 days ago | parent [-]

Your browser can translate the page automatically.

heartbreak 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Texas also has a grocery store chain that is particularly well-prepared for disasters.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/us/texas-heb-winter-storm...

saguntum 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yup, sometimes people joke that H-E-B is the 4th branch of the Texas government given how much they do during disasters. When food was going to go bad and payment terminals were having issues during the big 2021 winter power outage, pictures of them just giving out cartfuls of groceries were circulating on social media.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Fat Electrician did a great video on them on his second channel

https://youtu.be/23sehACMR6s

maxbond 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Fantastic. Good on HEB.

scotty79 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. War with russia is optimal course of action right now for Europe as russia extensively proved it can't be just left alone for any period of time. So some inconvenience for western Europe is expected and everywhere there are efforts to prepare for it.

bxsioshc 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

quantummagic 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The economic collapse of the west. The great reset is coming...

maxerickson 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

How is 72 hours of rice going to matter?

catlikesshrimp 4 days ago | parent [-]

That depends. How many people from the list are we leaving in for dinner?

mordae 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah. The way we run our countries is idiotic. Zero resilience. First concern after floods is getting back to job, even before all the water is drained and mud cleaned, because working people live paycheck to paycheck and so on.

Businesses try to keep minimum stock. Single disruption in integrated circuit supply disables whole industries. And so on.

Capitalism is incompatible with resiliency.

neets 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

If this is the sentiment on the Silicon Valley Bulletin Board that is Hacker News it may be time to take this stuff seriously

mh- 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Silicon Valley Bulletin Board

The participating commenter base on this site has been much wider than could be described that way for many years.

lovich 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

At least a decade. I’ve never been there and joined early in my career when I was told by mentors that it was a good source of up to date news on technology and the industry

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I think the implication with that phrasing is that HN is more left-leaning (like Silicon Valley), which traditionally isn't into "prepping", so this "pro-prepping" article is an interesting anomaly, perhaps even a harbinger.

gitremote 4 days ago | parent [-]

This is incorrect. Left-leaning preppers grow food and medicinal plants in their garden, install solar panels, and get vaccines, rather than stock up on guns and ammo.

malfist 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Silicon valley is hardly an oracle of all things to come

et-al 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a perennial topic:

- 2018, https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/15/why-silicon-val...

- 2022, https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prep...

It’s tougher to quantify and building a connected community than just profiting off users, though.

throw310822 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We're nowhere near that, but EU leaders keep hinting that there is a big war coming and we should all be prepared. In fact my impression, as a European, is that if any war is coming is because EU leadership are actively rooting for one and waste no opportunity to stoke the tension. This news is just one of the many examples of this.

The Ukraine- Russia war is a regional war that is happening outside our borders- all we should have done was to use diplomacy to make sure that our interests and good commercial relations with all sides were preserved.

egman_ekki 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> EU leadership are actively rooting for [a war] and waste no opportunity to stoke the tension

Yes, we should all just stop building our defenses and increasing our resilience and roll over. Let's roll out a red carpet for Russians all the way to Paris (or maybe Lisbon?). The same peaceful folks who talk about bombing our cities every week on their national TV.

throw310822 4 days ago | parent [-]

> Let's roll out a red carpet for Russians all the way to Paris (or maybe Lisbon?)

This is the kind of platitudes I'm talking about.

Russia is struggling to advance in a couple of regions in Ukraine, how do you think they would fare with attacking Europe and reaching Paris or Lisbon? Seriously.

mopsi 3 days ago | parent [-]

They'd fare much better. Ukraine had a large pool of conscripts, a professional cadre with combat experience from the Donbas, and deep Soviet stocks to draw from, while Western Europe abolished conscription and destroyed its Cold War stockpiles a long time ago. The current reintroduction of conscription and massive investment in defense are clear signs that European armies were (and for some time, will remain) inadequate.

throw310822 3 days ago | parent [-]

Compared to Ukraine, Europe has enormous amounts of money and modern weaponry, including nuclear weapons, nuclear submarines, hundreds of f-16s, f-35s, and twelve times the population of Ukraine for twenty times the size. For God's sake.

mopsi 3 days ago | parent [-]

There simply isn't an "enormous amount of modern weaponry", otherwise it would have been given to Ukraine a long time ago.

  Russia’s war against Ukraine has underscored the importance of air defence, as Kyiv begs the west for additional systems and rockets to protect its cities, troops and energy grid against daily bombing raids. But according to people familiar with confidential defence plans drawn up last year, Nato states are able to provide less than 5 per cent of air defence capacities deemed necessary to protect its members in central and eastern Europe against a full-scale attack.
https://archive.is/W6yv1

The same applies to tanks, artillery, and pretty much everything else.

throw310822 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Are you saying that if we had them, we would have given all our weapons to Ukraine? Lol.

Europe's aid to Ukraine is also limited by the fact that it doesn't want to be seen as an active part in the conflict, so it provides only arms with a limited range and that can be used only defensively. All this of course would not apply if it were attacked directly.

mopsi 3 days ago | parent [-]

> Are you saying that if we had them, we would have given all our weapons to Ukraine?

No - I am saying that this "enormous amount of modern weaponry" that you speak of doesn't exist anymore. The large Cold War era stockpiles were simply destroyed. Even basic weapons, like artillery shells, are now in short supply.

mrguyorama 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>The same applies to tanks, artillery, and pretty much everything else.

It literally does not.

US built 6700 Bradleys. US built 10,000 Abrams. Thousands of these machines are already stationed in Europe just waiting to shoot Russians.

Germany built 3600 Leopard 2 tanks. They built 2k Marder IFVs.

Saab built 300 Grippens.

The Brits alone built over 400 main battle tanks. France alone built 800 of theirs.

You should divide all these numbers by half or more to estimate ones with modernization upgrades, but Russia ran out of modernized equipment a while ago, and NATO 80s equipment has demonstrably outclassed Soviet leftovers.

The US is bad at producing Artillery shells because we utterly refuse to use State power to induce business nowadays, because of stupid "Capitalism good, gubermint bad" ideology, but Europe ramped up shell production. Manufacturers have openly said that all they need is a commitment, and they will build capacity.

The anti-air missile problem is because NATO always intended to rely on US air power (and our thousands of aircraft) to utterly own the skies and deny any air attack. Also the Shahed situation is somewhat novel. The US once produced 40,000 HAWK Anti-air missiles, which would be perfectly sufficient against something like Shahed.

Nobody wants to disarm themselves to give everything they have to Ukraine, but there is substantial arms that are just waiting for use, while Ukraine suffers. US alone could arm Ukraine twice over and not even feel the pain. Most of our equipment is considered not useful against China and is slated to be replaced, but we STILL refuse to sell it.

mopsi 3 days ago | parent [-]

Germany might have built 3600 Leopard tanks since the 1970s, but as of 2025, it has only about 300 in service with the Bundeswehr, of which roughly 200 are combat-ready. France, the UK, and Italy each also have around 200 tanks in active service; Spain has fewer than 100.

Nor are there thousands of American tanks in Europe ready to fire at the Russians. The last permanently stationed US tanks were withdrawn from Europe in 2013. At any given time, about 100 to 200 US tanks in total are scattered across Europe on temporary rotations (exercises etc).

These figures pale in comparison with independently verified Ukrainian tank losses, which currently stand at 1267, with total losses estimated between 1500 and 1900. In early 2023, the Ukrainian high command requested 300-500 tanks from allies for the next counteroffensive. The US was unwilling to provide such support, and other countries could not supply anything comparable, even through a joint effort. Hence the stalemate.

If Europe had deep stockpiles to draw from without compromising its own military readiness, the picture would be completely different. During the Cold War, Europe maintained such stockpiles, but they were dismantled in the 1990s and early 2000s as a cost-cutting measure.

scotty79 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm sure it's EU that completely accidentally, first time in 3 years sent more than dozen drones over Poland for the NATO to shoot down.

mytailorisrich 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes this is all BS but I don't think the EU is rooting for war. My suspicion is that EU countries want to build a stronger military and one more integrated at EU level. Both are hard sells especially when governments also keep telling us that there is no money for anything... So Ukraine is a very convenient scarecrow to "manufacture consent".

throw310822 4 days ago | parent [-]

I would understand that but in the end we're going to spend enormous amounts of money to buy most of our weapons from the US and each on its own. In fact, just by integrating our militaries we could increase our strength and keep the expenses at the current level. The impression is that all this, including cutting ties with Russia (who is selling us the gas now?), is done to the benefit of the US rather than ours.

mytailorisrich 4 days ago | parent [-]

There is no doubt that Ukraine has benefited the US a lot while Europe loses (including by keeping shooting itself in the foot).

mytailorisrich 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The risk level for a land war across Western Europe is probably the lowest it has ever been.

The balance of power is tilted against Russia much more than during the Cold War. That threat does not stand the most basic scrutiny. Russia couldn't reach Western Europe if they tried. Claims that it is the worst since WWII conveniently ignore the Cold War and even the 90s. Western Europe is better off now.

It is incredible the amount of BS we are spoon-fed by the media and governments in Europe... but perhaps even more worrying is how docile the people are and just eat it.

The good question is: what is the ulterior motive of the alarmists?

impossiblefork 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, we are much stronger than they, but once we decide to actually have a war with them some difficulties will arise. They do have some useful weapons which will have effects on us, so we'll have to be ready so that disruption is not excessive.

My view has been that we should be going in, bombing the Russian positions in Ukraine with stand-off weapons, bombing war-relevant infrastructure in Russia and going in where they don't have forces to oppose us-- seizing ships at sea. I'd like to see the Russian Baltic fleet sunk. It'd like to see parts of the Russian Northern Fleet sunk.

I'd also like to see a surrender of Kaliningrad forced by means of blockade.

If we want to do things like this we have prepare a bit.

wiseowise 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> Russia started open war against neighboring European country

>> Russia openly subjugated Belarus

>> Russian jets, drones and war ships routinely enter NATO without any response

> Urop has never been safer than this, comrades! No reason for panic at all!

scotty79 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> The balance of power is tilted against Russia much more than during the Cold War.

That's exactly why the full scale war is going to happen. There wasn't any better time to deal with russia than it is now.