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stevage 4 days ago

It is absolutely wild seeing people who do not know how to code building and shipping computer games.

This kind of language is fascinating/terrifying:

> I assume doing all this computationally is more processor-intensive than using pre-rendered monsters, but it’s very smooth for me on both desktop and phone, so it must not be too intensive. I guess I’ll hear from people if it’s choppy on their device.

I think the nature of our profession as coders is in process of shifting very rapidly, from "write code to do something useful" to "write code to do something useful, better than I could vibe code myself".

Feels like the painful transition when professional photographers started having to differentiate themselves from whatever people could do with their own phone.

On the other hand, as someone who can code in certain domains (web, maps), I could definitely see myself vibe coding as a way to quickly create something in a domain where I have no expertise (eg, Unity).

danielheath 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

We already had to beat "I made a spreadsheet", which continues to be pretty damn hard even for large teams of experienced engineers - ask your finance team sometime how many custom spreadsheets they use regularly.

A) Lots of useful apps aren't a great fit for a spreadsheet. AI seems to be opening many of those up the same way.

B) Lots of spreadsheets have bugs which cause then to give wildly inaccurate results, which are relied on to make crucial decisions. AI is also repeating this part of the pattern.

If you need it to work correctly all the time, there's still no substitute for expertise - but looking at the state of computing, clearly many people are willing to use things that have obvious, serious bugs.

tgv 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

The problem is management and short-term stock-holder interest. If some spreadsheet cowboy convinces some C-level suit that this is the way to go, and it works now, not in 6 months time, IT and development will be made to bear the brunt. Same with AI. The most ardent supporters of its use seem to be the higher-ups, $$$ in their eyes. Convinced of their superior decision skills, they can wreck the place, or in their view, rightsize the help desk/IT/dev departments. Then they get a bonus for delivering cost reductions, and move to another job before being held accountable.

yepitwas 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

I've already seen (second hand, through my wife) a complete cycle of this:

- LLMs make writers (for the kind of formulaic crap we ghost-write) unnecessary. We're firing 75% of our writing + editing staff, mostly the writers. Editors will now use LLMs to do the whole thing.

- What do you mean even our best editor and best LLM-user is still taking 90% as long as the total writing + editing process before, and their parallel-work capabilities are down, so throughput is down to a trickle and also every remaining worker is pissed off about how intensely frustrating working with LLMs is so the whole team's grumbling about leaving? Of fuck, we committed (without asking you, naturally, and ignoring a ton of explicit warnings that this was a growing problem) to deadlines!

- Hires back nearly all the writers as contractors

abustamam 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exactly! This is what I always say when people claim "AI won't replace jobs because jobs still need expertise !" While the cause statement is absolutely true, the people with the power/money don't believe it to be true (or, in some cases, don't care if it's true) and can get a quick win for the shareholders.

I wonder if there's gonna be a big reckoning of these "AI-first" companies suddenly people to fix their shitty vibe coded stuff. Ooh, new job title: AI fixer, minimum salary, $1m/yr, with RSU.

bongodongobob 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

We have an actual department that just supports spreadsheets and power bi reports for the c suite. That's all the poor bastards do.

tgv 2 days ago | parent [-]

At least they can put "data scientist" on their linkedin profile.

dave333 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Maybe I don't know enough about spreadsheets but two dimensions isn't enough for most applications. Maybe pivot tables? They are too hard to figure out. Need something like "SQLSheet" that takes a more complex data structure and presents viewing and editing it in a natural way with drill down and joins etc. AI should be able to help you design the DB and then create a tool to interact with it.

withinboredom 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

The people using these sheets have no idea what you’re talking about. They use multiple sheets to layer the dimensions and understand pivot tables perfectly.

Tabular-Iceberg 4 days ago | parent [-]

Are people who understand relational databases and people who understand pivot tables disjoint sets?

I can look at someone’s finished pivot table and reproduce it from the data through other means, but any explanation of what a pivot table actually is and does reads like pure gibberish to me.

withinboredom 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Probably. A pivot table is basically a way to turn on one of the dimensions of the sheet to make sense of the data. Like "show me all invoices, grouped by date and sum each group". It is effectively a query, in a way that makes sense for people working in spreadsheets.

marcosdumay 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The pivot tables don't require people to understand data normalization and software maintenance good practices. Outside of that, yeah, not really relational databases because those focus on having more than one table, but they do understand relations.

incone123 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is certainly much easier to shown than to tell about pivot tables. I tried to think of a good form of words to explain them but couldn't.

lmwnshn 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Check out the full version of Towards Scalable Dataframe Systems from VLDB 2020 [0]. They propose an algebra for dataframes and section 4.4's example succinctly describes the pivot operator.

[0] https://arxiv.org/abs/2001.00888

riffraff 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Microsoft Access?

incone123 3 days ago | parent [-]

If someone is going to invest the time in learning how to design a database and how to build a UI then they might as well do so on something more modern.

enobrev 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In theory, I'm a fan of it. I think getting a working mock-up as a demonstration of an idea is far better than building something from a few napkin sketches and then iterating while we close in on the original vision.

As for my own work, I just spent a couple hours this afternoon in a back and forth discussion with claude code, asking it to mock up a UI for me before "we" start building it tomorrow. It was just a mock-up, so I didn't require precision, but I was impressed with some tidbits that came along for the ride.

Some things it did without me asking

* Mock data for the lists and pages in json format, so I could easily add records to it for different scenarios

* Working navigation between pages, including modals

* Working progress bars and timers

* Working list sorts and filters

* Toasts for functionality that was beyond the scope of the mock-up ("sending email to author of post" or "banning user")

* Not-half-bad animations and transitions between pages, screens, modals, etc

* A responsive layout that worked better than expected on mobile and desktop

* Some ideas I hadn't considered, that we then expanded upon

I would have mocked this up for a client, but not for myself. It's quite nice to have a working html / javascript / css mockup to play with while I flesh out my own ideas - with a benefit that I actually fully understand the output and can tweak it myself as needed.

watwut 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It is absolutely wild seeing people who do not know how to code building and shipping computer games.

It existed with adobe flash. As much as programmers hated flash, it allowed artists with little technical skills to create awesome mini games.

autoexec 3 days ago | parent [-]

Exactly, I don't think people vibe coding flash games is much of a threat. There'll be plenty of work for actual game devs in the future. Nobody is going to be vibe coding the next Final Fantasy or GTA

psychoslave 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Feels like the painful transition when professional photographers started having to differentiate themselves from whatever people could do with their own phone.

Hmm, do we have statistics about that? Like, did the profession collapsed?

I wouldn't equal the photo I do (not much) with anything close to a pro. Not even to a good amateur level actually. But that's just me. :D

The "nature of the profession" might already be quite diverse, but that's an interesting remark.

conception 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Photographerizationing of software engineering has come.

LordGrignard 4 days ago | parent [-]

Cracked me up for some reason. Thanks for the laugh!!

mv4 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The upside is clear - vibe coding to test the market, get an MVP defined etc. The downside is that sometimes non-technical business owners decide that something is good enough to launch with non-existent security guardrails, and then a bunch of unsuspecting people get their private data stolen (like happened recently with that dating app).

I know this is not the case here and the game is very cool, I was primarily replying to the comment about the new trend.

fmx 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The number of monsters on the screen doesn't seem to affect playing speed for me, but when the wall of fire appears it slows down the game very noticeably. (Using Firefox on desktop.)