> huge proportion of tax revenue(second highest in the EU) spent on social benefits.

This is the goal not the problem.

Somewhat agree, but the problem is that debt is at 110% and taxes are about maxed out. At some point, you go outside the Laffer curve, and then your economic engine is stunted (which maybe France already has?).

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throwaway894345 a day ago | parent [-]

How can you tell when taxes are about maxed out? What's stopping France from increasing its marginal tax rate or creating a new tax bracket? Is the idea that people will move elsewhere in the EU with lower tax rates?

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bwb 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Every tax system has a point where extracting more means less economic activity. I think that also applies to paperwork and all the hoops you jump through. I wish I knew where it was, I think that is a big debate :)

But at some point, people give up, they don't start businesses, and if they do, they form them in the USA. Or they move nearby, a lot of French people went to Belgium the last time taxes increased a lot.

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throwaway894345 11 hours ago | parent [-]

That makes sense to me, but if we don't know where that point is, how can we say that France has reached it? I'm not trying to suggest France has or has not--I don't know the French economy well enough to have an opinion. I also wonder if "economic activity" alone is worth maximizing for--like certainly more economic activity is better than less, all else equal, but I think we also want to minimize inequality (maybe we want to maximize for median household income or something?).

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bwb 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't know, I wonder the same thing. And does that number change based on culture? And what parts? And how many new businesses are starting up in France and adding good jobs?

I know that the French economy isn't doing great. And it would likely slide further if government spending slows down, but I'm unsure of the extent of that impact. But I wonder how much of the problem is the sheer volume of paperwork and numerous taxes that consume hours to complete, monitor, and review when you get audited.

I think the government should optimize for a lot of things (well-being, good health, outdoor, fun, no pollution, etc etc), but ultimately, you need money to pay for those things, and to pay for guns to keep Russia (or someone like them) from invading and taking them.

	▲	throwaway894345 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah, I'll be the first to admit the French system could do away with a lot of paperwork. The amount of hoops I had to jump through to buy a phone or cancel my bank account in 2012 was wild. On the other hand, the French probably say the same thing about the amount of paperwork required to pay your taxes in the US.

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yoz-y a day ago | parent | prev [-]

That does happen.

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throwaway894345 11 hours ago | parent [-]

My question wasn't rhetorical, I'm not expressing an opinion, I'm trying to understand what the parent meant by "maxed out".

	▲	yoz-y 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Anecdata but several of my colleagues moved to other countries (Poland, Switzerland, US…) specifically citing high taxes as the reason. The middle class is disproportionately squeezed. Also one thing to consider is that most comments here talk about income tax. On top of that you need to also count all other taxes. Let’s say the company pays a US style salary for you, around 300k from that your actual gross salary will be only 200k from which the taxable salary will be 160k. That 160k is what you will be paying the income tax on (around 40k) This is the real reason salaries are lower here compared to the US even though the cost of employment is similar.