You can also design things so that people are not crammed in at a rate of hundreds of thousands per square km. Then, car-based infrastructure gives you a lot of freedom to place homes and businesses far apart and have reasonable travel time and capacity for everyone.

When I moved from Manhattan to an "evil" suburb full of "stroads," my door-to-door time to pretty much everything decreased. Getting rid of waiting for the elevator was a big time saver. Waiting 10-15 minutes if you get unlucky about the arrival of the train was pretty bad. Added all up, most walks took at least 10 minutes to go each direction and non-local trips took 30 minutes or more.

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lm28469 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

> You can also design things so that people are not crammed in at a rate of hundreds of thousands per square km.

Yeah I mean that's like 99.9% of the surface of the world, nobody is preventing you to go live your dream. We're specifically talking about cities, a city without population density is not a city by definition

	▲	pclmulqdq 6 days ago \| parent [-]
		For some reason, urbanists like to attack suburbs while also saying that everything is so far apart and takes so long. If you want to live in a city, live in a city, but don't pretend that it's the only way to live.

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jeromegv 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Sure. Now tell us how much time it took to get to your office in Manhattan and how much it cost to park there. The suburb is built around the fact that people live there but travel to the main city every day.

Now if you have decent train service to the main city, this is starting to be interesting urban design.

	▲	pclmulqdq 6 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		There is great train service from the suburbs to Manhattan, but I worked from home and moved to a different metro area. As it stands, parking by the office in the city I live near is about $150-200/month. Taking the train there and back every day from somewhere in the city would be about $150/month.
	▲	bluGill 6 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		> Now tell us how much time it took to get to your office in Manhattan and how much it cost to park there. Most people do not work in Manhattan. I'm not sure about OPs situation, but there are a lot of other places people work in New York City, not to mention other cities.
	▲	nonethewiser 6 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		You're just rejecting his hypothetical - Manhattan is dense.