| ▲ | tolerance 3 days ago |
| I think what speaks to the core of today's young men runs counter to my impression of the kind of books being popularized. When I was younger and read fiction I had access to a fair amount of copies of young adult novels that would never be front-and-center at a bookstore or library. In fact I think that most of these books were the rejects from the main libraries in my town. Violence, abandonment, resent, regret abound! Many of it was senseless and the endings were not as neat and resolved as the schoolteacher led me to believe how all books ought to end. I’m not recommending this experience. But young men do need author[itie]s to guide them through the discomforting aspects of their lives in an un-fantastic fashion. |
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| ▲ | embeng4096 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| +1 to your point about the type of books being popularized. I grew up obsessively rereading Redwall, Pendragon, RA Salvatore’s stuff, Ranger’s Apprentice, Enders Game, Tyrant of Jupiter, Maze Runner. Like you said, the me of now can’t recommend things like Tyrant, but still I can’t imagine that would have appealed to any of the girls I knew at that time, let alone the young women of today. By the same token, although I read Twilight and Hunger Games, I never was obsessed like the girls in my classes were. I can’t imagine that boys today are particularly interested in A Court Of Thorns and Roses and the other spiritual successors of Hunger Games, Divergent, Twilight, etc. |
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| ▲ | watwut 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > I can’t imagine that would have appealed to any of the girls I knew at that time, let alone the young women of today. That is just you being sexist tho. | | |
| ▲ | embeng4096 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's funny you say that, because the Tyrant of Jupiter series was written by Piers Anthony, whom I understand to be considered nowadays as problematic and misogynistic. The misogyny shows through, especially in a scene where the main male protagonist is making back room military deals with a woman, and the method of negotiation is, to be rather explicit, a martial grappling match, in the nude, in a zero-G bubble, where the protagonist wins the rounds by physically subduing his woman counterpart and achieving PIV penetration before they separate and go again. Like I said, I can't recommend that series now that I have a more mature perspective. But I can't imagine that a book written by a misogynistic author with explicit themes of female submission to male authority obtained by use or threats of physical and sexual violence would be particularly appealing to women in general, let alone women who have grown up in a culture that has in recent times had much more acknowledgement of such things, e.g. MeToo, more widespread conversations about toxic masculinity, the oppression of women by physical force and the male-dominated hierarchy that projects that force. If you disagree and think that young women (and enby people) would find such books appealing though, I'm interested to hear why. | | |
| ▲ | streptomycin 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I can't imagine that a book written by a misogynistic author with explicit themes of female submission to male authority obtained by use or threats of physical violence would be particularly appealing to women in general Are you familiar with romance novels? Which gender do you think is reading stuff like https://www.amazon.com/Morning-Glory-Milking-Cambric-Creek-e... | | |
| ▲ | embeng4096 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Note the phrase “sweet and steamy” from the subtitle of the very book you link. Tyrant had sexual content, yes - sweetness, steaminess and romance? Not really Edit: the subtext I’m speaking of is of submission and domination through implicit or explicit coercion. I’m not speaking of sub/dom with connotations of mutual enjoyment and consent, as can be the case in real or fictional situations of romance in general or even specific kinks like BDSM. I may be called sexist for this but my perception is that women can and do enjoy the latter (as the popularity of books like you linked imply) and greatly dislike the former | | |
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| ▲ | throawaywpg 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I was alive in that time and girls did not like those books, at all (of course WOMEN may be a different story). They liked Harry Potter, and LOTR after the movies came out because Orlando Bloom. | | |
| ▲ | in_cahoots 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I was alive at that time and I loved the Redwall books, Enders Game, LOTR before the movies, and some Heinlein. Never read Harry Potter, which came out when I was in middle school. And I was a girl. Characterizing girls as only liking Harry Potter and Orlando Bloom is like saying boys only liked WWF and Jackass. It's a mindless stereotype. | |
| ▲ | watwut 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I was alive too and moved in sf/fantasy circles. And I am saying that you are just being sexist and wrong. If you have seen only boys liking Harry Potter, LOTR or Ender Game, then it is purely result of who you picked as friends. Because girls read all of those. | | |
| ▲ | throawaywpg 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I said girls loved Harry Potter and LOTR. Girls forced me to perform the Harry Potter theme in band class because I was the only one good enough to play it! And its wasn't my friends. It was the entire class. |
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| ▲ | sapphicsnail 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I read LOTR before the movies came out, the Silmarillion, and most of the books mentioned above and I know plenty of other women who have as well. |
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| ▲ | watwut 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I suspect you do not read and do not frequent bookshops, because there is no shortage of books with violence or resent. Also, young men have literally no shortage of violent or resentful entertainment in their disposal. |
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| ▲ | tolerance 3 days ago | parent [-] | | My local bookshop closed this year, so no, I don’t frequent them as often as I wish these days. To your credit, I’m sharing my impression of the books that I read in elementary school. Come to find out they may not have been as obscure for as I thought. I was just 8/9 years old reading YA novels. Joe Hardy’s girlfriend dying in that car bomb must have awakened something primal in me. I’m not recommending this experience. But young men do need author[itie]s to guide them through the discomforting aspects of their lives in an un-fantastic fashion. Start em while they’re young! And we’re talking about young men, visceral depictions of real life drama and books. Reading is a different experience than digital media, would you agree? |
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| ▲ | raincole 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| It's a vicious cycle. Less fiction from male perspective is published because boys don't read. Boys don't read because men are less represented in fiction. I don't think there is a solution except some form of affirmative action. |
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| ▲ | tolerance 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Tolstoy: the Crimea
Hemingway: Italy, Spain, Cuba, Germany, France
Orwell: Spain
Mailer: the Philippines, Japan
Fanon: France, Algeria
Affirmative action, eh.
It’s a vicious cycle indeed. |
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