Car infrastructure also takes a lot of money and time. Remember how long it took to reconfigure the Turcot Interchange - a few years later you still (already?) have bumper to bumper traffic during rush hours there anyway.

Public transport gives much better ROI for more people - you don’t need the added expense of the car to benefit from it.

▲

markus_zhang 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

But it's already being done. Now to propose new spending...it's really difficult judging from the financial status of major NA cities. (And take a look at the California railroad...)

▲

mytailorisrich 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Public transport gives much better ROI for more people

That's a bold claim without data.

▲

ljf 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

Just did some very light googling - building out, repairing and developing new road infrastructure seems to have around 2:1 or 2.5:1 ROI - Public transport, active transport seems to have around 4:1 to 5:1 ROI.

▲

mytailorisrich 6 days ago | parent [-]

Not sure what any of this means in relation to the comment I replied to. Keep in ming that public transport is built only on the busiest routes while roads are required (yes, actually required) everywhere.

Edit to @loloquwowndueo below: I haven't been shown any data, not has my point been replied to. Please guys let's try to have a grown-up discussion.

	▲	loloquwowndueo 6 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		So when shown the data you asked for, you find a way to dismiss it. Brilliant :)
	▲	6 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		[deleted]

▲

loloquwowndueo 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You seem to be implying the opposite, also without data. Now THAT is a bold claim.

▲

fayten 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

This depends on how you define ROI. Car infrastructure and lack of density reduces tax revenue for cities and strains infrastructure.

There are other human benefits to reducing car traffic and use in favor of public transportation: * Reduces air pollution * Noise pollution * Allows a focus on human centric urban planning * Allows for higher density commercial and residential increasing tax revenue * Reduces pedestrian traffic injury

Well done video essays:

Parking minimums https://youtu.be/OUNXFHpUhu8?si=xAxUHCA0xmxCIZWg

Noise pollution https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8?si=Eov6X3Z3I1T0l_bd

Infrastructure strain https://youtu.be/7Nw6qyyrTeI?si=KrVJ3tDaODHNGBwm

More on Infrastructure and Sprawl https://youtu.be/SfsCniN7Nsc?si=0ulEtryX4K6Ysy-N

Articles:

https://climate.mit.edu/explainers/public-transportation#:~:...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/379358672_Vehicle_n...

https://www.britannica.com/topic/urban-sprawl/Costs-of-urban...

Climate town videos are all well researched and provide an enormous amount of follow-up content from their sources.

Generally, I care about all of the above and I perceive investments in public transportation to have a higher ROI.

Some extra historical context is helpful too: https://youtu.be/oOttvpjJvAo?si=ZGXF81qJnD_Fgw0L

The book The Color of Law by Rothstein is worth a read.

In the end there is a balance between public transportation and car dependency and right now the scales are leaning too much in favor of cars.

	▲	mytailorisrich 6 days ago \| parent [-]
		Thanks for this useful comment, too rare in this discussion unfortunately. One thing to bear in mind is that roads are required no matter what, so the question is one of size, really. In general public transport shines and is definitely worthwhile in dense urban environments where cars-only infrastructure could not cope or would be completely disproportionate. As density drops usefulness and viability drop, too. > In the end there is a balance between public transportation and car dependency and right now the scales are leaning too much in favor of cars. Not sure that is the case in Europe. In Europe this tends to be driven by militant groups that want to ban cars for dogmatic reasons and they create real problems for people and businesses in the process. A pragmatic approach is indeed to have a good balance and to accept that cars are both wanted and useful, and needed in many cases.