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IshKebab 4 days ago

I think it would be hard to argue that working all together in an office - like before covid - isn't more productive. In-person meetings are easier. Whiteboarding and brainstorming is way easier. Spontaneous conversations are easier. Helping junior people is easier. People actually pay attention in meetings. You get to know colleagues better.

Have you ever had to "now click on the left... no, up a bit. No go back you were just there. It's the third one from th... I'll just paste the link in chat" when you were standing next to someone's desk? No.

The only benefits of working from home are:

1. No commute.

2. Can do life stuff (we finally have a solution to the dumb problem that shops etc. are only open when people are at work).

3. The company doesn't need to spend money on offices.

The first two are huge bonuses for employees, but the company doesn't give a shit about them. At best they care about paying for offices, but that's pretty minor (especially when they've already paid for them and they're sitting there empty).

rkomorn 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I entirely agree on the benefits of in person work. I personally don't enjoy the remoteness of remote work, but the time, money, and sanity cost of commuting still ends up making me prefer working remotely overall.

If I could live in the same building as my job, I would.

simoncion 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Have you ever had to "now click on the left... no, up a bit. No go back you were just there. It's the third one from th... I'll just paste the link in chat" when you were standing next to someone's desk?

Yes.

I resolve it the same way in person as I do remotely, either by pointing at the screen, asking for (and receiving) control of the mouse and keyboard, or both. If you don't know how to use the features of your screen-sharing software that permit this, you need to learn them. If your screen-sharing software does not have these features, urge your company to switch to one that does (or just switch to one that does, if your company policies permit).

> People actually pay attention in meetings.

I've seen no difference in overall meeting attentiveness in the switch to WFH. Perhaps I've been blessed to work with unusually competent and mindful people.

> Spontaneous conversations are easier. ... You get to know colleagues better.

I don't, no. If anything, spontaneous conversations are way easier remotely, as most of the "water cooler" conversations in the office happen in large "off-topic" channels. This is really good for knowing what's going on at the company, because it massively expands the audience for chatter, gossip, and unofficial news from just a handful of people to the entire company. Plus, it's async communications, which means that you don't miss out just because you weren't there.

> Whiteboarding ... is way easier.

This is true. Most folks don't have cameras hooked up to their whiteboards (or even have whiteboards!).

> [B]rainstorming is way easier.

Disagree. Virtual post-it notes and a shared text document of some kind, plus a group voice call works great.

IshKebab 4 days ago | parent [-]

> I resolve it the same way in person as I do remotely, either by pointing at the screen, asking for (and receiving) control of the mouse and keyboard, or both. If you don't know how to use the features of your screen-sharing software that permit this, you need to learn them.

We used Google Meet, and recently switched to Teams (on Linux). Neither support either feature. I think it's impossible to do it on the web because there's no screen sharing web API (due to security fears) and no overlay drawing API either (again presumably due to security fears).

You need a native app, and Google don't make one, and Teams doesn't support Linux.

simoncion 4 days ago | parent [-]

Well, as I said:

> If your screen-sharing software does not have these features, urge your company to switch to one that does (or just switch to one that does, if your company policies permit).

Should you choose to embark on it, I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your quest to get collaboration software that's not crippled by platform limitations.

Having said that...

> I think it's impossible to do it on the web because there's no screen sharing web API...

Weirdly, this isn't true. Discord claims to be able to share your screen even in the web browser version. From the "How To Stream In A Discord Channel" section of [0]:

> Info: Currently audio can only be captured by the Windows desktop, MacOS desktop, Chrome browser, and mobile clients. Unfortunately, audio sharing is unavailable on Linux.

I notice a conspicuous absence of "this doesn't work in a web browser" caveats for any of the other screen-sharing things that Discord does. The only caveats I notice are for audio capture on Firefox and on Linux in general.

And yes, while the Info box at the top of the article says that it covers how to do this in the Desktop Client, I tested screen sharing a moment ago in the latest version of Firefox on Linux. It works just fine. When I choose to share my screen in Discord, the web browser pops up a dialog asking me if I'd like to share my screen, and -if so- would I select which window (or the entire screen) to share?

> ...and no overlay drawing API either...

I don't know how one would handle the "permit others to draw on top of the shared window" mechanism, but there's little doubt in my mind that something can be cooked up that's clever and not too offputting to use... assuming that there's not something already available to be used that neither of us are aware of.

[0] <https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/360040816151-G...>

nananana9 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I completely agree, but just as the company couldn't care less about the employee's benefits from WFH, I couldn't care less about the company's benefits from WFO.

Most organizations are so inefficient, that all of this is barely a factor - whether or not work is getting done at 1% of the rate of what it should be getting done, or 1.3% isn't really a dealbreaker for the company.

dogleash 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Spontaneous conversations are easier

Demanding an immediate impromptu meeting of indeterminate length does feel less rude in person, yes.