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jojobas 4 days ago

It's thought that life on Earth started with RNA mayhem, not with vessels to isolate from it.

andrewflnr 4 days ago | parent [-]

RNA world is mainstream, but a few scientists have proposed that something like cell membranes, such as these vesicles, came first and provided the environment for more complex chemistry.

evrimoztamur 4 days ago | parent [-]

Life exists at the boundaries of density changes.

It makes absolutely no sense that the code would precede the hardware, and the hardware needs shielding.

StopDisinfo910 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

It doesn’t have to make sense.

It’s all a case of dynamic equilibrium in complex systems and emergence. Finality doesn’t really come into it.

bongodongobob 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think the idea is that if you have a nice bubbly froth and some proteins/RNA type thing end up inside and help reinforce the bubble wall through electrostatic forces you get a symbiotic relationship. The soup inside reinforces the bubbles around it.

dsign 4 days ago | parent [-]

And everything that we hold dear happens after that.

I don't object to this explanation of the world, but I reckon it's an uphill battle convincing people that all of the living natural world, and all of human history, their culture, their religions and their science and all the beliefs in-between had their origin in some electrostatic forces. I'm of the opinion that even well-informed people of science haven't had time to fully adjust their world-view during the handful of decades we have known this much.

igleria 4 days ago | parent [-]

Dunno about everyone else, but if that is the origin of everything that lives on this planet, I'd find relief. One less question in an ever increasing sea of questions is better than just an ever increasing sea of questions.

codesnik 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

but actual code preceded the hardware!

anonzzzies 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

indeed, people like Dijkstra wrote quire a bit of code on paper before the hardware to run that code existed.

Gravityloss 4 days ago | parent [-]

Well, there existed ware, the code ran on wetware

rollcat 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

This. Ada Lovelace wrote programs for Babbage's analytical engine long before anyone succeeded at constructing one.

andrewflnr 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In defense of RNA: you know about ribozymes, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribozyme Life does not really respect a code/hardware divide.

oh_fiddlesticks 4 days ago | parent [-]

The source code of life is recorded and transmitted using physical matter.

Physics very much matters to matter.

For development of any information storage systems made of molecules, there must be a supportive development environment.

To even start the process of doing anything like what we see happening in a cell, homeostasis must be achieved first, and not inelegantly, its not good enough to have a complete cell wall if it has no ports for entry and exit of nutrients and waste product, thats also known as a coffin.

Both the walls and the gates and the information / physical systems to reliably exploit those features must be present at the same time to enable abiogenesis.

SJC_Hacker 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Not necessarily. The primitive cell wall could have used other mechanisms. For example simple protrusion of the membrane does not have to resulr in catastrophic collapse, if done slowly enough membrane allows substances to enter and exit and still remain intact by closing up quickly after wall is broken

If you play around with soap bubbles carefully you can observe phenomena like this.

AllegedAlec 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Congratulations. Now go and read the literature and learn how this might've occurred. You're not the first person to raise these objections. Biologists aren't morons.

3 days ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
oh_fiddlesticks 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Having read a fair amount of the literature, it's not that compelling.

I would encourage people to stake their life on it, let's put it that way.

tomrod 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I see where you're coming from, but I think you're thinking across too far over the boundary. Quantum mechanics aren't ordinarily affected by non-sentient life, they're just primitive to the environment at the macro level.

root_axis 4 days ago | parent [-]

Quantum mechanics has no relationship to sentience.

parineum 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

That's a pretty strong statement considering both facts that quantum mechanics affects everything and sentience is not understood.

root_axis 3 days ago | parent [-]

Quantum mechanics is a well defined theory and sentience, however you define it, has nothing to do with it. Your reasoning is akin to saying "gravity affects everything so you can't rule out it has some connection to sentience". It's a meaningless statement.

tomrod 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Correct. My apologies that my comment was unclear such that from my comment's content one could not distinguish particle accelerators built by sentient life and woo-woo New Age claims of "The Secret" or manifesting.

fooker 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Funny that code did predate hardware.

cmrx64 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

transmembrane proteins are complex hardware of their own…

kjkjadksj 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Part of what makes RNA world so compelling is the RNA is both code and hardware. Yes, central dogma is not the end all be all. RNA structures can be catalytic just like enzymes.