So Apple did research and Daniel just “turned it on”?! I am not talking about Hardware part even then you're biased and dismissive of other's effort.

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saagarjha 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Shipping MIE (or even MTE) is a many-year effort that requires several parties. I appreciate that Daniel and the GrapheneOS team have been working on making sure the allocator is MTE aware, as well as (I assume) updating Android code to work under MTE. However, to actually ship this, you need someone to design the feature itself, then threat model it, release hardware for it, plumb it through the build system and make sure the OS is aware of it, and then there's a bunch of ongoing work that needs to be done so that it can be released. Much of this work was done by Google and Arm, not Daniel, involving dozens if not hundreds of engineers.

Daniel's position on MTE for a while has been that Google is dragging their feet in turning it on, but he fails to understand that there is more to it than just flipping a switch that he does in his OS. To actually productionize it requires a huge amount of effort that Apple put in here and Daniel, as talented as he is, really can't do. We know this because Google was not able to do it even though they wanted to. (For the avoidance of doubt: Google does want to turn on MTE, they're not just dawdling "just because". The current MTE implementation is not good enough for them.)

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astrange 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It certainly isn't something you can just turn on. I don't know how hardened_malloc works, but one problem is that C malloc() doesn't know the type of memory it's allocating, which is naturally an issue when you need to… allocate typed memory.

You can fix this insofar as you control the compiler and calls to malloc(), which you don't, because third party code may have wrappers around it.

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strcat 3 days ago | parent [-]

MTE is not about typed memory. It's for detecting invalid memory accesses outside of an object or outside of the lifetime of the object in general. hardened_malloc is the main place GrapheneOS implements MTE for userspace. In the kernel, it's implemented in various allocators and in Chromium in PartitionAlloc. The kernel and PartitionAlloc allocators have typed allocator designed unlike malloc. It's still possible to do partitioning for malloc via size classes and call locations.

	▲	saagarjha 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, this is exactly what you're missing and why what Apple has done is novel. They've combined MTE with typed allocators to reduce the performance impact and make it effective as Android failed to do.